Another "Things most people know about history... that are wrong" thread

Having seen and overheard here and in person and on other web sites a lot of misconceptions about history, I’ve been jonesing to start another one of these threads. There have been similar threads on the Dope before (you can search if interested), but in general don’t worry about whether you’re repeating something on another thread if you feel like adding it here. Also don’t worry about citing in your post unless you feel like it, but do please provide a cite if asked.

So what this is: there are lots and lots of things that people “know” about history that are wrong. Some are very specific

Though the above appears in books, pop-culture (most notably an episode of MAS*H) and turns up occasionally in conversation/speeches/anecdotes/etc., it’s (as has been discussed many times on the SDMB) not true. Drew did die from a car accident in the Jim Crow era south, but he died of his injuries on the scene; the best of medical help even today probably could not have saved him. (A very similar tale is told about blues great Bessie Smith, repeated by her half-sister [also a famous blues singer] and others who claimed to be there, and inspiring an Edward Albee play; like Drew she was fatally injured in the crash [her arm was nearly severed] and she was d.o.a. at the hospital [which was not ‘white only’].)

Others are more vague:

The only real argument to the above, as most people who’ve ever read history that was in more depth than a Jack Chick pamphlet know, is whether it’s more of a gross simplification of a contributing cause or whether it’s complete and utter nonsense altogether. Ask 100 historians who specialize in ancient history what caused the Fall of the Roman Empire and you’ll get at least 60 answers, many of which are probably true: it fell due to a great combination of things that included everything from climate change to population fluctuation to bad leadership and military disasters over centuries; more serious historians favor the adoption of Christianity as state religion as a major cause of the fall than favor immorality. It’s hard to get much more debauched and pleasure seeking than Caligula and Nero and yet the empire had nowhere near reached its zenith by the time of their death, while the emperor Heliogabalus was probably the single most depraved and wickedly immoral as most would define the term and yet the empire survived him by centuries. Short answer: there’s no definitive reason the empire fell, or even when it fell (some cite 410, most cite 476, some go with the fall of Constantinople almost 1000 years later), but it had little or nothing to do with queers, adultery, fornication, gypsies, tramps, or thieves.


Okay, please add more.

A few that irk me (some of which I’ve heard recently)-
“Jefferson Davis was captured wearing a dress in order to avoid arrest.”

Fact: Jefferson Davis was over six feet tall and at the time of his capture had a full beard; nobody would have been fooled by him in drag. He may (accounts vary) have been wearing a shawl (that may have been his wife’s, though men also wore shawls) over his head due to a cold, but he made no attempt to disguise his identity when Federal troops surrounded his party. (A similar legend had spread 29 years earlier about Santa Anna when he was captured by Sam Houston’s soldiers; there was a tiny kernel more truth in Santa Anna’s in that he was wearing a disguise, but it was not a dress- it was a private’s uniform.)

“The Americans won the Revolution by fighting with guerrilla tactics (firing from behind rocks and trees) while the British marched in a straight line and in bright red coats and were thus easy pickings.”

Fact: Absolute BS. The Americans did use guerrilla tactics at times, but so did the British, whose army was one of if not the greatest fighting force in the western world at the time and which had fought skirmishes and wars with the French, Indians, and even occasionally the colonists (e.g. the Battle of Alamance) for a century by this time. The British did have some incompetent generals (as did the Americans) though they also had some competent and some gifted ones. The reasons for the American victory are many but major reasons include the French Alliance (which did not secure American victory in and of itself but without it there’s no way we would have won), the unpopularity of the Revolution by many prominent members of the British Parliament, the fact that the British crown was hemorrhaging money due to wars and building infrastructure in colonies all around the globe, and of course a lot of sacrifice and good fighting by many American soldiers. The practice of marching in a long wide line neither stupid nor uniquely British but was in fact an almost universal military tactic of the day that had its roots in ancient times; it was also not employed in all battles. One use of this formation was the “firing line” by which the British could keep missiles continually firing for several minutes as the front line fired and retreated to the rear to reload.

They were indeed born in log cabins, but neither the Lincoln family nor the Jackson family nor several other famous Americans born in similar situations can truly be said to have been born in “poverty”. Log cabins were a simple but durable and comfortable structure constantly used on the frontiers and did not in and of themselves indicate poverty, just expedience. Compared to the mansions in cities on the Atlantic seaboard from Savannah to NYC they were certainly humble structures, but compared to most of the people living within 20 miles of the Lincolns in Kentucky or the Jacksons on the border of the Carolinas (far west of “civilization”) they were about average. As with most frontier cabins, they were replaced or renovated once the family had the time, funds, and indication they were remaining where they were long enough to warrant building nicer quarters. (The Lincolns were certainly not wealthy, but they did own their own land and that alone separated them from real poverty; Jackson was not wealthy either, but as a young man he inherited over $1,000 in cash and property from his grandfather in Ireland which was a considerable sum at the time and formed the basis of his fortune.)

The Mayflower technically brought the Pilgrims, who though very similar in their Calvinist beliefs were actually distinct from the Puritans who came a few years later. The Pilgrims truly were seeking a place to practice their religion in peace and without being subject to the British crown, but things that apparently most Americans don’t know:

1- the Pilgrims were neither the only nor the majority of the passengers on the Mayflower; about 2/3 of the other passengers were unaffiliated with the Pilgrim beliefs but came for pretty much the same reasons people came to Jamestown (where the ship had been headed)- mainly, profit

2- many of the Pilgrims and later the Puritans were English by birth and culture but actually came from the Netherlands, where they in fact had enjoyed religious freedom, so much so that they were worried their children would become too assimilated into the largely secular Dutch culture. (They weren’t being rounded up and slaughtered in England, in other words.)

3- by sailing on the Mayflower and settling in Massachusetts Bay, the Pilgrims were actually ensuring they would be subjects of the British crown; those who came from the Netherlands were actually out of his jurisdiction.

As for sex, most Dopers already know that the Puritans and Pilgrims really weren’t that puritanical on the matter. They certainly frowned on premarital and especially extramarital sex, but they quite enjoyed sex inside of marriage and even are believed to have had fairly explicit sex manuals (no copies survive, but they are referenced and are known to have existed in Europe at the time). They had a fairly high illegitimacy rate and an even higher rate of women who gave birth within the first 7 months of marriage. (Most of the stern and humorless depiction of them comes from Nathaniel Hawthorne, the descendant of several of their number, and particularly from his book The Scarlet Letter which is generally considered not an accurate depiction of their culture; even in that book, however, it should be remembered that Hester was not shunned for having an illegitimate baby but for being an adulteress.)
Leaving America

There were many reasons they failed at Stalingrad and the Russian winter certainly didn’t help matters, but lack of preparation is greatly overstated. They were in fact far better provisioned and wardrobed than the Soviet army that was there to defend the city; the Soviets were so inadequately supplied that many literally pretended to fire their weapons at the Nazis in order to make them think they were better equipped when in fact they had no ammo, and many more Soviets died of exposure and starvation than their invaders. Stupid decisions in Berlin and the fact that the Soviets fought like hell (and were as terrified of their own commanders should the city fall as they were of the Nazis taking it) were more major than the winter itself.

For that matter, Hester wasn’t even shunned. She was kinda looked down upon but people spoke to her & hired her to do seamstress work.

Who else would love to see a Puritan sex manual?

“It hath the similitude of a wee mann in a boat. The Almighty hath put it there for His owne goode purposes so see that thou doth not despisse it!”

If you can find them, get a copy of Richard Shenkman’s Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of American History, which was widely printed in paperback and distributed, and was also on audio (read by Laugh-In’s Gary Owens!), and briefly a cable TV series. His second, lesser-known book (maybe because of its awkward title: I Love Paul Revere, Whether he Rode or Not) is also worth getting. Both present plenty of historical myths and misconceptions, with plenty of footnotes to show where they came from. A third book, Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of World History, is shorter and sloppier, and not as well put-together.
Shenkman isn’t as agenda-driven as Loewens, with his Lies my Teacher Told Me and Lies Across America.

According to this article, George Washington’s teeth were not made of wood.

America didn’t declare war on Nazi Germany in WW2 - Germany had already declared war on them in accordance with their military alliance with Japan after they bombed Pearl Harbour (admittedly they did so reluctantly not wishing to open up yet another front in the war, but still).

I tried reading Loewens’ book, but stopped when I came across… errors! Ironically I don’t remember exactly what they were, but they were big enough for me to not buy the book. One thing I do remember is that he sounded like a jerk; he talked about how when he asked his freshmen students “When was America settled?” most would answer “Plymouth Rock, 1620” instead of the Indians or Jamestown or St. Augustine. Loewens pointed to this as evidence of cultural racism (the Indians and Spanish weren’t important) and ignorance (Jamestown and St. Augustine are not known at all).
While I see the argument he’s going for, I think it’s very unfair to the students to assume prejudice and ignorance based on their answers. I seriously doubt there’s a single freshmen college student in the USA, even foreign born students who didn’t grow up here, who doesn’t know that Indians were here long before whites and who doesn’t know that Indians were also humans and who, if the question were worded “who were the first humans in North America?” couldn’t answer it correctly (they may not know the tribes but would know that he’s going for Indians). However, if I were asked a question about when America was settled I couldn’t answer it without asking for clarification as to “what do you mean by America?” America is, if only to me, a political entity or concept that by definition refers to settlement by Europeans (since they’re the ones who termed it America) beginning 500+ years ago; otoh, if he’d asked “who first settled North America” then it’s referring to a continent and the question seems broader (and the answer is also a lot more complex that Loewens seems to think since they’ve found remains of several different races here) and even then there’s the fact that what’s now Mexico City was settled by Europeans two generations before St. Augustine and almost a century before Jamestown.
Anyway, Loewens struck me as a self impressed git who’d be genuinely disappointed if a freshman student actually did know something about the history or prehistory of the Americas.


Apologies for the rant. Returning to topic and with one related to the above,

Most people know that America was named for a feminine Latinized form of the first name of Amerigo Vespucci. The truth is that this is far from certain and there are several other theories. One that is gaining much currency is that it was named for Richard Ameryk (also spelled Amerike and pronounced America), an English merchant of Welsh descent (his name is believed to be an Anglicization of ap Meurig, Welsh for “son of [the Welsh form of] Mark*”) who paid for the mapping of Newfoundland, where he had fishing interests, by John Cabot in the late 15th/early 16th centuries. There is some speculation that Amerigo Vespucci actually changed his name to Amerigo (not sure the basis or merit of the argument) after Columbus’s expeditions. There are other etymological theories as well, but the short answer is, “nobody’s exactly sure why it’s called America and Amerigo Vespucci is only the most favored of several theories”.

*Meurig is also a male form of the Celtic goddess Morrigen but was doubled for use as Mark after Christianization, similar to the way that some Roman given names related to the sea (Mari in Latin) were re-fitted to honor Mary/Maria/Miriam after Christianity

No apologies necessary. It was a well-directed rant. When I read Loewens’ book, I got irked by his repeated premises of what American schoolkids are taught. I can’t think of specific examples, so I may get this wrong. He said that kids are taught in school that the Pilgrims celebrated Thankgiving with the Indians and are turkey, blah, blah, blah but what really happened was …

Yeah, kids are taught that. In the First Grade! The history classes I had in middle school, high school, and college expanded the story and told it from both sides.

I can’t continue in this vein without re-reading the book because I’ll mix up the stories.

These theories (and others!) are covered in Shenckman’s book Legends, Lies, and Common Myths of American History, along with references. From the evidence he cites, the “Ameryk” theory seems extremely unlikely. Is it really true that this theory “is gaining currency”?

Actually “gaining currency” is probably poor wording on my part; it’s “becoming more known”. The last few things I’ve seen about Amerigo Vespucci usually have a footnote or asterix mentioning the Amerykan theory.

That must be galling.

This is probably a puny contribution to the thread but I’ll mention it anyway: I’ve seen it repeated many times the “fun fact” that Bourbon County, Ky., is dry but Christian County is wet! Wrong. Bourbon County has never been dry, except during Prohibition, like the rest of the country.

And I don’t know why it would be such a shock that Christian County is wet; after all, Christian isn’t synonymous with teetotaler. Especially Catholic Christians. :smiley:

Internet ate my contribution, so here’s the short version: the Huns did not have stirrups.

Well played, sir/madam.

[sub]je me sens un peu faible…[/sub]

I’ve just looked over the “Ameryke > America” evidence on the internet. Apparently there has been a book and several articles about this since Shenkman wrote his book. The more recent stuff makes the case better, but the hard evidence is still lacking, and the pages seem to rely more on assertion than anything else. It is a possibility, but it’s a helluva long way from proof, or, unless you’re motivated to like this alternative, even a long way from likelihood.

The United States did not overthrow the Hawaiian monarchy. It was an internal revolution by Hawaiian citizens. It was a republic for 6 years before annexation.

No witches were burned in Salem.

Hung, crushed, yes. Burned, no. Some were even let free after “confessing”

Sir. :cool:

Hee. :smiley:

I was of the understanding that one of the major reasons that America succeeded in the revolution was through the use of privateers who disrupted the supply lines between England and America.

Your “Location:” isn’t specific. Are there trees? Failing that, lamposts?