I’m sorry, but when did Smapti travel to South Carolina to speak to Mr. Jones? Or are you saying that you are Mr. Jones? :dubious:
You go right ahead and ignore me. When i care about your opinion, Quarry Boy, i’ll send you a PM.
I didn’t say I was refuting something he wrote. I was discussing why people object to particular behaviors.
I think I already spent enough time explaining why he’s wrong. If you want to white knight for him, that’s cool and everything. But you can still read what I wrote instead of asking me to say it all over again.
Maybe he thought the guy was grabbing for his uzi or shotgun?
Nah, this one seems cut and dry. That cop is fucked and needs to be flogged.
The problem is that the cop asked to see the guy’s license, and the guy moved toward the interior of the vehicle without explaining that he had to retrieve his license. Did he suspect the cop was going to shoot him? Clearly not. I doubt the officer had his gun drawn, so Mr. Jones would have had no reason to feel his safety was threatened. But officers are trained, AFAIK, that every traffic stop is a potential armed confrontation and that they must remain in control of the situation at all times. That’s why they don’t want you exiting your vehicle, for example.
Mr. Jones did nothing wrong here, but there is an explanation for why the cop reacted as he did. Those of you who think it’s wrong, that he over-reacted, that his actions were not rational and that his clear panic was unreasonable, you’re not getting any argument from me on those points (Smapti either, near as I can tell). But to suggest that there are not ways that people can behave that will reduce or even minimize the potential for a situation to escalate is ridiculous.
By the way, at what point did former Officer Groubert tell Mr. Jones to reach into his vehicle?
The reason is that the cop was a reckless fucking moron who was terrible at his job. He could not tell the difference between a guy complying with his request and a man ‘diving headfirst into his car,’ or between a guy complying with another request and someone ‘jumping out,’ possibly with a weapon. That’s the reason this happened. If you comply with all of your extra rules, you might be able to prevent a cop from fucking with you. You will not be able to prevent a badly trained idiot from fucking up because you cannot know how or why those people will fuck up.
You don’t understand. Cops are heroes who put themselves at risk every day. Therefore, they should never be expected to put themselves at risk.
At shat point did a routine encounter with a cop become “mother may I”? That’s simply not how people expect or should expect to have to behave. It’s unacceptable. It’s not what our society should be like.
The thing is that we have a long-term problem, both historical and in the present, with cops shooting unarmed black people in America. And we do not have a significant problem, nationally, with unarmed black people behaving in such a way that sparks cops to shoot them. The focus should be on the first, and discussions about the second are only a distraction.
He said to get his ID. Many people keep their DLs in their cars.
If there were no dashcam video, does anyone here think that this cop would be prosecuted?
He asked for his license. This cop was trusted with a weapon and given the authority to kill people, and he was too stupid to realize people sometimes don’t have their wallets in their pants. Somehow I think you want this to be a defense for his actions. It isn’t one.
Of course not.
You’re of course correct, and I for one am writing a nice letter to Mr. Jones, explaining the lively debate that has ensued here and passing along your and Smapti’s helpful advice, which, as we now know, no one ever conceived of before you guys came along. I’m thinking of closing with “But of course you’ve learned YOUR lesson, haven’t you?” Or is that maybe too much?
Jesus christ, this is the country we live in now. There was an explanation. Thank god. I mean, a dude is almost dead because a cop told him to do something, and then he did it, so the cop tried to kill him, but it’s such a fucking relief that somebody thinks he had a reason.
I thought maybe that ant fungus had gotten into his brain and made him do it, and I just would not have been able to deal with that.
Is this in response to what I said? If so, I’m confused.
People should not have to treat encounters with the police in the same way they treat an encounter with dangerous wildlife.
True. For one thing, dangerous wildlife, so far as I know, don’t carry firearms. Well, there’s that whole “arm bears” thing, but I don’t think anyone actually has done that.
It’s in response to Snowboarder Bo, but I was trying to add to what you said.
You really need to understand your rights, especially with respect to your arms. You have a right to bare arms. I’d go easy on the bear arms, however. :eek:
Jones, logically, had to reach into SOMETHING. If the license was not in his hand, it had to be somewhere he would have to put his hand.
Literally anywhere Jones could have reached to get his license is a place he could have had a weapon, theoretically. If he’d gone to his back pocket, there could be a gun there. If Groubert was going to start shooting the instant Jones reached somehere a weapon could theoretically have been, then Jones was doomed to be shot by virtue of Groubert effectively ordering him tor each somewhere. That is the only way he could retrieve his license, after all, unless he had telekinetic powers.
It’s also worth noting that if you watch the video carefully, the cop freaks out and orders Jones “Get outta yer car,” and Jones does indeed get out and turn towards the officer - and only then does Groubert start shooting.
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If there were no dashcam video, does anyone here think that this cop would be prosecuted?
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Not a chance in hell, no. Had there been no film, the investigation would have gone on weeks and it would have been a finding of justifiable use of force. As it is he’ll get off very light; the heavy initial charge won’t stick.
Not to mention that there was no reason for the officer to think Mr Jones was violent.
He hadn’t been speeding or driving erratically.
He wasn’t being stopped on a warrant.
There was no Amber alert on his car.
He simply didn’t have his seatbelt on in a parking lot. Why would the officer assume he was violent or dangerous? We expect our LO to use some for of judgement! The guy was stopped for a seatbelt violation. Was asked to get his ID. Turned and complied. There is nothing mitigating in this scenario to give the cop a reason to feel threatened.
Honestly, I hope it turns out the cop’s got a brain tumor or something to explain such paranoid, erratic behavior.