I just went back to listen again to the sequence of commands and watch the “suddenness” of the movements, and I’m pretty certain the cop fires 4 times, not three. The first two are in very rapid succession, and the third and fourth are interspersed with pauses.
Right on the nose. I reject your premise, Senor Beef, because they should not be the standard we are held to in order not to get shot by a cop.
Yes. But even if you hadn’t, the problem is still there.
The cop rolled up right next to his car. What kind of fucking cop killer lets the following sequence of events unfold: the cop gets right behind him, parks just a few feet from his car, talks to him, and only then makes the decision to kill him? The problem with this scenario is not just that it’s incredibly dumb and makes no sense. It’s that if a cop is justified in feeling threatened in that situation, then every cop is justified in feeling threatened in almost any situation. That’s just stupid. I understand the police deal with situations that sometimes become dangerous and they have to be on the lookout for those kinds of things. But like I said, a big portion of their job is figuring out which situations are dangerous and which ones aren’t, then responding appropriately. I can understand a cop being on guard if he asks a person for ID and the person reaches into their car. I cannot comprehend a cop failing to tell the difference those things, then screaming “get away from the car!” and shooting a man after he complies with those instructions and gets away from the car with his hands in the air. He draws his gun and screams at the guy to get out of the car, then shoots him after he does it because he moved too fast! You literally could not fuck this up any worse. It’s lucky he didn’t kill the guy.
What a stupid statement. Of course they’re people. This story is about a person who made a totally stupid misjudgment and could’ve killed another person. Your response is to say that it’s kind of OK if a guy who carries a gun all day feels threatened by everything under the sun, and we should walk around at all times knowing how to cater to those people despite all the training and expertise they are supposed to have.
He didn’t do anything that looked like a threat! He did exactly what the cop told him to do.
No shit, Dick Tracy.
He did nothing to “agitate” the situation. He did exactly what was asked of him and did not expect the cop’s insane overreaction. Who would? I’ll grant that the cop probably expected him to reach into his pocket and not the car - of course you can keep a gun in your pants, so that would’ve been a big fucking help - but again, there ought to be a bunch of steps in between noticing a somewhat unusual reaction and screaming and panicking. People don’t always have their ID in their pants. I’m sure a cop should know that.
That’s pretty much all we’re asking.
He could have. It’s not unreasonable that he didn’t. The irony here is that we all get the message “DO EXACTLY WHAT THE POLICE SAY WHEN THEY TELL YOU” drilled into our heads, and you’re using that as an excuse for a cop who shot an unarmed man. Apparently the real message is “DO EXACTLY WHAT THE POLICE SAY WHEN THEY TELL YOU AND ALSO ANTICIPATE THEIR REACTIONS TO EVERYTHING YOU DO AND NARRATE YOUR ACTIONS AND HOPE TO GOD THEY DON’T FIND YOUR BEHAVIOR SUSPICIOUS BECAUSE EVERYTHING UNUSUAL IS SUSPICIOUS.”
Exactly. The standard ought to be the hundreds of thousands of cops who have managed to control all kinds of anxiety provoking interactions with people without shooting anyone.
This part of the argument has reminded me of that video - maybe 15 years ago? - of the cop who pulled over a black woman and then proceeded to grab and yank the shit out of her, trying to pull her out of the car while she was still seatbelted in. I could be wrong, but my recollection was that she was not moving fast enough for his liking.
Since I’m the one who’s got your dander up, let me make this really easy on you. Not all the people of Columbia need to be cool with this; they only need one to be totally cool with this. See this thread as my cite for people totally cool with this. I contend an all-white jury is a reasonable assumption, based on previous shootings like this. Want me to pull some cites? Sorry there won’t be much because typically when this happens, nothing at all happens except we have one less nigger and the cop gets a medal or something*. But you can take the same bet as the other poster. I can wait for this travesty to continue unfolding in typical tragic fashion. Have they started niggerizing the thug yet, oops, I mean shooting victim.
*everything following the comma in that sentence is snark, because of course I have to spell that out here.
OK. Was the Black thug fleeing to avoid getting a seatbelt ticket, or to escape from a homicidal maniac?
I’m very glad I’m not suddenly Black and living in Amerika. Training is needed to realize that any unexpected twitch is cause for shooting.
I will be honest.
I would have acted that exact same way if I had been that cop.
Which is why I am not a cop. I would make a horrible cop. I don’t react well to stress and fear.
Just because I can understand the cop’s reaction does not mean the victim is any less of a victim, though. Because I can also see myself behaving how he did. He was under stress and fear just as much as the cop was. And the thing was, the guy didn’t initiate the encounter. The cop did, so the responsibility was 100% his to control it. He failed horribly. I’m glad the poor guy wasn’t killed and we have video footage so that everyone can learn from this.
Well you can hardly expect a police officer to know about the existence of seatbelts. They’re human beings, not robots! Obviously the sensible thing to do would be driving around without seatbelts just in case a cop pulls you over and needs you to get out of the car. You want to comply quickly! But wait- the cop might pull you over for driving without a seatbelt. Oh, and they might open fire if you get out of the car too fast. You know, I’m starting to think there’s a problem here.
Notice that in this case shots were fired AFTER the victim threw his hands up in surrender? Sound familiar? Except that in this case there was video. In the other, there was just a street full of witnesses. Whose testimony means absolutely nothing to the defenderati…
But in the court of Moronland, the standard only seems to applies to black men and teenagers. Maybe this is why SenorBeef and others seem so glib in their Just World sermonizing. They can be confident they’d never be subject to airchair critiques about how “threatening” they behaved prior to being fired upon.
We live in a country where white men accused of federal theft can actually point gunsat law enforcement and expect to not even be arrested for it, let alone not killed and maimed. And yet here we are scrutinizing footage from a safety stop, trying to find ways in which a black shooting victim failed to convince the cop he wasn’t the threat that, of course, he should’ve known he appeared to be.
I have my doubts the cop will be convicted.
Jimmy Chitwood’s point is excellent. Smapti and SenorBeef may have a technically accurate point that the victim’s actions were only 98% reasonable and calm instead of 100%. It’s the focus on a trivial difference when the victim is very clearly well within the bounds of what a reasonable person would consider to be reasonable actions, rather than on the actions of the cop, that is distasteful.
It’s not even that. His actions were 100% calm and reasonable. What they were is slightly unusual. Apparently that means it’s partly his fault a cop freaked out and shot him. We’re being told on the one hand that cops have to be prepared for anything (which is somewhat true), and therefore they can’t be expected to distinguish between various commonplace situations. Citizens, on the other hand, need to anticipate anything that might set off a cop and just sort of pretend the police are psychos.
Go fuck yourself. I haven’t said anything racist, nor did I say the guy got what was coming to him, or he deserved it, and in fact I have explicitly said that he did not deserve it, and the cop was not justified in shooting him.
The fact that he’s black is irrelevant to my point. And I’ve said specifically how I always go out of my way to make sure cops are comfortable and unthreatened when interacting with me. Why would I even do that, if I thought me being white would protect me and defuse any sort of situation?
You are a scumbag that accuses others of racism not only in the absence of evidence but in the face of contrary evidence.
Except, ya know, he wasn’t reaching for a weapon.
So, his “body language” isn’t indicative of a fucking thing.
CMC fnord!
Of course Clothahump defends the cop. Ok, let’s get specific here: what body language are you talking about? What about the way he leans into the car indicates that he is reaching for a weapon instead of his ID? How can you make a judgment that specific based on “body language?” Here’s what I see: the victim takes his right hand off the door of his car, pauses, turns, reaches into the car, and lifts one foot off the ground a little bit as he extends his arms. By this time about two seconds have passed and the cop approaches, gun drawn, screaming at him to get away from the car. Which of those movements indicated that he was reaching for a weapon and not the drivers’ license he had been asked for?
Do you think it’s really physiologically possible for her to “go fuck herself?”. Based on her previous posting history, is that something she’s been shown to be capable of doing? Or what that a bit of anatomical hyperbole?
He has every right to be frothingly furious. After all, I used the diagnostic label of moron to describe him after he had only used the lay term of idiot to describe everyone else. (In case anyone misses the sarcasm there, both terms have a history (long ago) of use as categorical labels of below average intelligence. Why my use of moron is somehow different in this regard from his use of idiot, well, I guess figuring that out would require a special kind of stupid.)
Are you implicitly supporting her accusations of racism towards me?
Also, I used idiotic primarily to address ideas used by a group of people. You specifically said “you are a moron.” as a direct opener to your post specifically directed at me. I’m sure you’ll consider that weaseling, but I don’t care. Your statement was far more direct, insulting, and damaging to discussion.
This is a lame-ass retort, dude. Just be mature and admit that you forgot you played the ad hominem card first. Cuz this stupid post just proves Hentor and Ivory correct.
You have never stuck me as a racist, so I’m not going to consign that particular insult. But you are coming across as an apologist for a certain tactic of policing. There’s considerable overlap between racism and tough-guy law enforcement. So while the racist label may not fit, you need to be aware that you’re sounding like “that guy”. Regardless if that’s your intention.