I was inspired to open this thread after watching Edward Scissorhands on cable last night, presented by my favorite culinary skillz-having movie hosts, Paul and Annabelle of Dinner And a Movie. Anyway, one of the two mentioned that Tom Cruise had been approached about the role of Edward, but rejected it because he thought it was “too effeminate”. Of course, nothing was said about the greater context in which this offer might have been made, but I just can’t see the Edward role as effeminate. The character’s certainly different, but I can’s see him as effeminate per se. I’ve also noticed that people like John Lithgow are now suspect with regard to their orientation, as someone here once marvelled to learn that he was straight. Have we reached the point where “different” not only equals “gay” but also "effeminate’? To me, to be genuinely effeminate a man would have to have a definite affect to his voice and his mannerisms. Just being a bit off the wall, or articulate, or quiet shouldn’t count.
What do you all think?
Tom Cruise felt Edward Scissorhands was too effeminate but accepted the role of Lestat?
Maybe Tom didn’t feel comfortable with the idea of wearing such obvious make-up. The John Lithgow thing is just plain moronic, though.
Shouldn’t count, but all too often it does. I think it’s sad that people who are perceived as different are automatically assumed to be gay, but it’s an interesting phenomenon. On the one hand, this implies that being different OR being gay is somehow wrong - on the other hand, the fact that people bother to discuss it at all seems to imply that we’re very interested in this “wrongness.”
Being straight and weird, I object to the stereotype, which was why I opened the thread!
At times like this, I think back to the days when I was doing community theater. After my father met the director, shook his hand and looked him right in the eye, he told me with absolute certainty
“He’s not gay, he’s just theatrical.”
Oh, thank CHRIST Tom Cruise didn’t accept the part of Edward. It’s one of my fave films because of Johnny Depp and his so called "effeminate"inenityness…
But besides that, I don’t think that even if a man has an affect to his voice or mannerisms, that he’s gay. He might just be, well, high-pitched and theatrical. Who knows? I’ve met lots of purely hetero guys who could have been mistaken for gay.
I actually had a conversation along these lines with a friend last night. It seems to be mostly an American thing. We have a weird idea of “masculinity” in this country. Seriously, go to Germany, England, or definately Spain, and most men there will seem gay. Not because they ARE gay or even weird. IMHO, it’s because they don’t have the strict code of masculinity that most boys grow up with in school.
Oh yeah, and Tom Cruise only started acting after he hurt his knee in wrestling. I have nothing against wrestlers and I think they work extremely hard, but if there’s any sport that just has a homosexual feel to it, it’s wrestling!!!
BTW, I only know about the wrestling cause my 8th grade teacher had been Tom Cruise’s teacher in a different school many years previously.
People thought that my husband was gay in high school because he didn’t like getting puking drunk at football games, read books, and was soft-spoken.
Which means that some of his fellow students thought masculinity equaled public vomiting, illiteracy, and general buffoonery . Go figure
Could somebody tell me again why anybody should care what stupid people think.
Because they outnumber the smart people, KneadToKnow?
Speaking from the “other” side here for just a moment, I can tell you that as a man who is 100%, flaming, man-lovin’, totally gay, I am frequently mistaken for one who is hetero.
Why? Because I am not soft-spoken, “queenie”, “bitchy” or any of the other stereotypically assumed things that gay people are “supposed” to be. The thing is that 95% of my gay friends are just about the same as I am. And yes, I know a fair number of guys who prance, mince, lisp and generally fit the sterotype PERFECTLY. Of course, I also know a fair number of straight guys who fart loudly in public and call attetnion to it, drink till they vomit, ogle women just short of getting arrested, and are general troglodytes - so they fit the hetero stereotype perfectly as well.
This whole idea that someone’s sexual orientation is in some way linked to the way the speak or walk or dress or behave has always been a bit mystifying to me. - I’ll bust another sterotype for you too - my house is a mess most of the time. I guess I didn’t get the “housekeeper” gene.
The generally accepted social norms for “gay” and “straight” have been, IMHO, set pretty much by Hollywood and othr pop-culture sources over the years. “Straight” is basically John Wayne. “Gay” is bascially Nathan Lane.
So, to the OP, javaman, you’re right, general quietness, articulation or “off the wallness” shouldn’t count, but in our unbelievably straight oriented (and horribly insecure about it) US society, it does count - whether it’s right or not. Can we change it? Maybe over time, but as long as straight people have to continue to proclaim, when discussing anything that could be considered even slightly “gay”, “I’m straight, but…” then it ain’t going to change quickly.
I just have a hard time being around my family. I’m bi, right… but no one knows? And my brother’s the type of hetero-stereotype TVGuy talked about. He’ll be watching TV and be like “Dang, she’s hot. What I wouldn’t do to her… Even you have to admit she’s perfect.” Sometimes I completely agree, but for the most part, my brother has aweful taste! He likes girls who haven’t eaten in a month and who tan till they could change races. I’m always at a loss of what to say though. When I say “No, she’s aweful,” he just writes it off that I only like guys, so of course I can’t see what’s so great about girls! ARGH!!!