Antarctic Base: How feasible?

Factual Questions
1

I’m working on a concept for a story invovling the Nazis building a facility near the South Pole during the 1930’s and 1940’s. However, while it’s fiction, I want to make it at least somewhat realistic. So I would appreciate any insight into this concept.

I am making the following assumptions, for the sake of this idea.

  1. That there is something compelling enough for the 3rd Reich to consider this an important project, and that the political will and resource availability on the part of the german govenment will be available for several years at least. This will be an inherent part of the plot of the story as to why the base exists.

  2. That most transport will take place in the antarctic summer.

  3. That greenhouses will make the base at least somewhat self-sefficent, lessening the need for food supplies.

  4. The base will not be sustainable by 1945, for various reasons.

As I see it, such an undertaking would be tough, to say the least and I have indentified the following problems:

  • The ocean around Antartica isn’t the clearest patch of water around and there’s not a lot of places for ships to get close to the shore and unload cargo. I remember a movie about Ernest Shackleton and his failed expedition a while ago and it gave the impression that sea travel isn’t exactly a picnic in that area.

-The nearest airstrip would probably be in New Zealand or Argentina, which would make flights to the base location a challenge.(though I suspect New Zealand would not be possible due to political realities) Since germany has no Aircraft carriers, Argentina would be the best bet.

-Extreme cold would make it difficult to use machinery or even motor transport (I’ve heard that people in minnesota have to turn their engines over every few hours during the winter to keep the anti-freeze from freezing).

-Distances from the sea to the Pole would use a lot of fuel for ground transport. Supply caches is the only thing I could think of to really solve this.

-Vehicles might be a sticking point. Wheeled vechicles would be out, so perhaps halftracks and treaded tractors would be the best bet. Planes would have to be either bombers or cargo planes. Distance and carrying capacity would be very important here.

I know that there are research stations down there, but most I believe are fairly close to the Ocean. I’d be interesting in knowing how they built and transported the needed materials (though I seem to rememebr they had helicopters that helped a lot).

As much as I’ve been able to plan out, Freighters could be used to deliver supplies to the coast, as well as dogs, sleds, and later vehicles (after the requsite supplies of fuel had been left at supply depots along the way the way to the building site). An Airstrip is later built at the base so planes can be used for transport from Argentina (which was far more likely to allow german air travel from 1933-1945 then New Zealand or Austraila). Freighters and land transport would still have to make a sizable bulk of supplies, though his would be increasingly difficult from 1940 onward, due to British and American Navy intervention. I only idea I can think of in that regard is use of freighters that disguise themselves as allied shipping once leaving the range of the luftwaffe, but I have no idea how pratical this is.

So, is there anything I’m not thinking of? Or is there something that would make it impossible (Like do logistics allow it?) that I’m overlooking?

Any nits in this idea would be appreciated.

2

Not much to add except didn’t Clive Cussler deal with that premise in one of his Dirk Pit novels? I think it was Atlantis Found.

3

Got one word of advice that would solve most of your problems and give you that zesty Germanic flavor your story craves: Zeppelins.

4

Did he? I haven’t read any Cussler. I know the idea isn’t new, since I got the idea from something else, but I’m hopeing that I could make it a decent story anyway.

Stupid Nothing New under the sun

5

Could zeppelins work in Antarctic weather conditions?

Somebody else mentioned railroads. I’m not sure how feasible that is, but it would solve a lot of problems.

6

I’ve read Cussler’s Atlantis Found. It did feature a similar idea, but IIRC it was based in modern times and the bad guys had merely made use of an old secret Nazi base in Antarctica.

I like the idea but wasn’t especially impressed with Atlantis Found, so I don’t let it discourage you from your idea.

You should be commended for your desire to keep to the possible, but as it is fiction, I’m sure you can afford some artistic licence on the details. You could always make up some special technology developed by the Nazis to help their trains/zeppelins work in the conditions?

Perhaps an incentive for the German base could be a huge natural resource field (oil/gold/whatever) found under Antarctica? I have read a book where the remains of a past civilisation were found under the ice, but I haven’t read anything on natural resources found there so far.

7

FYI the Graf Zeppelin, completed in 1931, had a range of 6000 miles and made at least one flight over the north pole.

I can’t find any references to a south pole flight by any airship. Richard Byrd flew an airplane over the south pole in 1929.

Currently the South Pole Station is supplied by air, using LC130 cargo planes. McMurdo Station on the coast serves as a transfer point, I believe.

8

Antarctica is one of the windiest places on the planet with gales of up to 200mph, so I have my doubts about zeppelins.

In 1957 Sir Edmund Hillary made it to the south pole using farm tractors rigged with skis, and the Snowcats they use today are really just a modern version of the same thing. These tractors were able to haul short “trains” of sledges with supplies. So that’s probably the most realistic method.

9

In case it helps, I just found this link, which speculates about resources that Antarctica could be harbouring. It also has a bit on how feasible it would be to retrieve them, and mentions the balance between the cost and the likely profits.

Good luck!

10

It’s possible I could do it better. Though I’d have to read it to compare.

And I guess I’m really into the accuracy thing is because I’m one of those people who watches movies and lator picks them apart (I can still like them, but I will take them apart). Hell, I love spaghetti westerns and little in them is particulary accurate. But then again, I’ve always found that there is a lot of fun to be had with possible Nazi inventions ( I once did a computer game scenario that invovled Allied Commandos destorying a fully functioning Nazi Missle Silo complex. The basic idea featured Mustard Gas being loaded into the warheads of Advanced V-2 rockets and lauched at london from an underground silo built into a hill, with railroad equipment being used to move the missles around inside)

Zepplin I could possibly do, but I’m ruling out the train thing. The Ice is a mile thick and I don’t think you can really lay track on it.

11

Don’t see why not. The obstacles to any vehicle working in the Antartic involve lubricating and hydraulic fluids solidifying, and the fact that metal becomes brittle in extreme cold. Zepplins, I believe, can carry more cargo per unit of fuel than an airplane, which is important if you’re fuel supply is limited. Two additional problems: Zepplins usually require a significant ground crew to land safely, and high winds at landing can be a real problem. Still, it would be plausible for the Germans to attempt to use Zepplins. They’d try to manage this during good weather - but remember weather prediction in 1940 wasn’t nearly as accurate as today. Could be an interesting part of the story, wether the Zepps work out or not.

Too much labor to build and maintain in those conditions. EVERYTHING would need to be brought in, and how are you going to feed a small army of workers? Dogsled and, as mentioned, tractors dragging sldeges make the most sense.

12

Well, it is the day for Nazi threads.

(Nazi threads? You know, boots, feldgrau woolen pants with red stripes, a tunic. But I digress.)

In this era (the 1930) many goofy ideas appeared. One of these was Hollow Earth Theory. This held that UFOs and stuff came from the advanced civilization in the center of the (hollow) earth. Their were supposed to be holes at the poles.

I owuld point out a Nazi base Down South would be supplied (I suppose) from nearby Argentina.

13

Actually, I think the hollow earth theory is far older then that. Poe used it at least once in his stories.

And there are still people who believe it. They are easy to spot because of the Tin Foil hats.

14

But then again, if it fails, can you say “Hindenberg?”

Yeah. Besides, the ice cap is a mile deep on the plateau. Ice and Snow doesn’t sound like the best thing to anchor tracks in.

15

HPL -

I second the Zeppilin idea. You’re forgetting a few important things. The Zeppilin need not “dock” or “land” but could employ air drops like we do to our troops now. Another method of supplying the facility might be submarines.

Heating wouldn’t really be a problem, if you dug deep enough into the snow. Snow works as a great insulator. Maybe there’s a geo-thermal pocket there for heat/power.

As for food, how about Hydroponics. Not like your going to have a water shoratege in the land of eternal snow. Fish and plant life could be supported in a closed eco-system. This type of enviroment is called an “archology”. Need electricity? How about wind power? I don’t know if they had developed the concepts of wind power back durring WW2, but the Germans definatly knew about windmills so it’s not a far gone step to make the technological leap.

German half-tracks could have their front wheels replaced with Ski’s to work as giant snow-mobiles.

As for why there are there, they could be doing scientific experiments. Belief in the hollow earth theory is quite well attributed to Hittler. Maybe there ARE resources there we’re not aware of. There are serious theorys in todays scientific community that at one time the poles actually sat on our equater and “The Meteor” that hit Mexico caused a polar shift. If that is true, then the possiblity of oil being there is high as creatures in that area would have no where to go.

Keep us up to date on the story!

16

This cite suggests that there was small scale use of wind power to generate electricity in rural USA prior to WWII.

17

I think you’re confusing the two poles. There’s solid rock under the south pole. A submarine won’t get any closer to the south than a good icebreaker. North pole, on ther other hand, is just ice floating on top of the ocean. Submarines and even surface ships (Soviet nuclear-powered icebreakers) have reached it.

18

Although I’m not willing to throw cold water on the Zeppelin idea (and, yes, airships were regularly used for Arctic exploration prior to 1937; the Norge, with Amundsen and Nobile co-commanding, comes to mind), it’s worth noting that Flottadmiral Raeder was in the process of building an aircraft carrier when WWII broke out, and it was not completed simply because there were other things with higher priorities to the German armed forces. Getting that carrier finished during the war would not be much of a stretch from real history.

The area south of Australia and South Africa and north of the Antarctic Ice Pack is among the most treacherous in the world – the “Howling Sixties” (being around 60 degrees south latitude). It’s possible to penetrate to the Antarctic coast quite easily with icebreakers, but the pack ice surrounding the continent (except for the Antarctic Peninsula pointing towards South America) usually precludes penetration by ships without an icebreaking hull or else escorted by an icebreaker.

19

Most research sites are near the coast, but there is one smack dab at the south pole. (webcam). A skeleton crew spends the winter there.

They normally can’t get planes there in the winter, but a few years ago, when there was a medical emergency, a small plane (IIRC a Canadian Sea Otter) flew to the pole from McMurdo. The pilot had to wait a few days for a break in the weather. He was facing high winds, low visibility due to blowing snow, low illumination, and, of course, low temps. Besides the chance of hydraulic fluid getting too thick, low temps and an altitude near 10,000 feet adds up to thin air and very little lift.

They originally planned to leave the engine running while they loaded the passengers, but for some reason the pilot couldn’t leave again immediately. They were able to start the plane the next day and get back to McMurdo.

As for the greenhouse, I’m not sure how feasible that would be. You would need a very large building and even with triple-paned windows the station would lose a lot of heat. The low sun angle would give you a very short growing season. They’d have to transport a huge quantity of building supplies for a meager amount of veggies. I think they’d be better off transporting stocks of rations and storing them in unheated buildings.

20

here’s another good site: http://www.spole.gov