This topic may be bound for the pit, but that’s not really my intension. It’s more of a poll really.
I was out this weekend and I had the first experience with anti-American sentiments. Right now I am an American living in Bangkok, Thailand (NOT Taiwan!). This weekend I was out in a touristy spot that had a British band playing covers by mostly American bands, common entertainment here. An American friend and I were enjoying their rendition of “American Idiot” by Green Day, who incidentally are American. At the end the guys said, “Fuck all Americans” in a not very funny way.
When they got off stage and started relaxing we asked them about it in the most non-confrontational way possible. “You know we liked your set and we liked American Idiot, but why did you say fuck all Americans?” The guys blew us off basically telling us we were unworthy of talking to them. (We got the last laugh as they had to leave as the bar closed but the owner invited us to stay and chat.)
I understand the sentiment in places that have been unfairly treated by the US. But the Thais don’t seem to feel this way at all and are really friendly. It seems that other travelers or expats from the West are usually okay and making a few jokes about being a liberal or jokingly apologize about being American kills any tension.
Anybody else have an experience with this kind of knee-jerk sentiment?
I’m an American, and I travel a lot. Currently I reside in the Philippines. I have definitely noticed a change in the past few years. The change has definitely been for the worse. Many people now view America as an arrogant bully with no respect to other countries cultures and beliefs. I blame Bush, he has turned a lot of people against America, and I also believe he has made the world less safe for us Americans travelling abroad.
Yes, most of them American. I still get people back home asking me about Taiwan and I tell them that I only spent a few hours in Taipei airport so I wouldn’t know.
We were walking around downtown Nairobi on September 12th, 2001. A shopkeeper came up to us, and said “I am extremely sorry for what has happened to your country”. We responded with a “thank you for you concerns, but actually we’re Canadian”. To which he responded “aaah! Those fucking americans”. From what I learned later, there is still some bitterness towards the US about the embassy bombings.
If someone makes a joke about Michael Jackson being wierd… everyone agrees… its like a common “joke” or reference. Americans being arrogant and bullies did exist before Bush… but now its a much more common reference, Meme, idea. Other “memes” are american obesity (some truth in that) and americans having way too much money and spending it in wierd ways.
If I were an american I wouldn’t even try to discuss back… or at the best I’d say 49% aren’t pro-Bush. Still the tendency is to lump 'em all together. (Even I do that)
There are bigots in every location, and AFAIK they’ve always existed. Amongst things that have happened to me whilst I was outside the country:
Being subjected to a unsolicited lecture on the evils of Ronald Reagan by the drinks server on British rail train (“why haven’t you yanks done us all a favour by assassinating him?”; I disliked the guy too, but that was a bit much)
Being barked at in public by a Trinidadian taxi driver for, in his view, closing the door of his cab too hard; according to him, this was symbolic of all Americans’ contempt for foreigners (huh?)
Several incidents in various bars in Paris in which I was accused by drunken idiots of all sorts of nefarious acts against innocents simply for being American.
All these happened many years before the US invasion of Iraq.
Look…you travel to third world countries like Thailand or Nairobi, they basically see you as a fat arrogant American with a big wallet. If you go trying to play the liberal douche card, they will see you as a fat arrogant American with a big wallet who they can take advantage of. I mean what do you expect? People to cheer and throw rose petals because the great Americans are here to spend their money?
See, this is the part I resent. It’s as if we’re all being lumped together as a bunch of triggerhappy, arrogant, yeehawing cowboys because of who our President is. And half of us didn’t vote for him.
Cynical Gabe, how is it that you get to become an Italian citizen?
I’m a US citizen, living abroad for the past 14 years, and have also traveled quite a bit. I agree that anti-Americanism has become worse since Bush came on the scene, but it isn’t new.
True, a light-hearted apology usually helps ease the tension. Many people dislike the US without automatically disliking individual American citizens. But for those who can’t look at a person as anything other than a nationality, and who insist on showing hostility to any individual who happens to have a certain citizenship, and who blame individual citizens for the actions of governments, in my experience, there isn’t much hope. Personally, I wouldn’t have asked the band about the comment, even in a non-confrontational way. I might have chuckled if they had said “Fuck America” (though I dislike such rancor), but “Fuck all Americans” suggests an extremely resistant strain of bigotry, beyond my patience to deal with. In such cases, I prefer to walk away. There are those who just enjoy hating, and I can’t cure them.
And it isn’t the stereotypical arrogant, obnoxious American that they enjoy hating. (Many westerners in Asia who are seen as arrogant, obnoxious Americans are not, in fact, Americans.) There are those who have no problem at all with arrogant, obnoxious people, as long as you’re from their part of the world–but if you’re from a different part of the world, no amount of good qualities will render you acceptable to them. Happily, there aren’t that many such people.
By the way–I also agree that Thais are among the friendliest people on the planet, and I envy you for living there! I plan to retire there someday, though probably not in the City of Angels. I love Bangkok, but I’ve got my eye on an island down south.
Oddly there is darn little anti-Americanism here in Saudi Arabia. Those who like us, like us. Those who do not like us, hate all Westerners pretty well equally.
Anti-Americanism is noticeably bad, but depending on the context, it’s easily handled with some open conversation. Girl_Incognito and I were traveling in France last year, and we found that many locals who would possibly criticize often float a George W. Bush test balloon first:
Local: “You American?”
Us: “Yeah.”
Local: “What do you think of George Bush?”
Us: “We both hate him and his whole agenda, we voted for Gore, we love France as well as the rest of the world, and while we love America very much, as world travelers we are ashamed of America’s current foreign policy.”
Local: “Welcome to France. Have some wine and cheese.”
One evening back at the apartment we’d rented (part of a larger estate with several other renters in residence), after Girl_Incognito and I had been drinking at a barbecue with a few native French and some expat Brits, the comments coming from the French and British guests took on a distinctive alcohol-fueled hostility toward Americans and the US government. A little drunk ourselves, and therefore neglecting the left-brained conversation emergency brake, we mentioned that we were both lawyers. Much to our surprise, the hostility (at least some of it) turned to curiosity, and we were suddenly, and remained for the next two hours, completely inundated with questions about the constitution, the federal judiciary, the supreme court, Election 2000, federal elections in general, international law, the death penalty, etc… Oh, and the Electoral College. We all had a good laugh and spent about six more bottles of wine on the “fu@*&ing Electoral College.” So you never really know what you’ll find, I guess.
As a limey who lives in a tourist trap (London), and travels on the continent a lot I would say that most Europeans can easily tell the difference between America (which many actively dislike - especially the French) and actual individual yanks.
There are of course some people who just don’t like you - but they are a tiny minority.
Having said all that, yank tourists are (outside of the French) easily the most irritating. They are loud, arrogant, dreadfully dressed (old people in tracksuits and trainers, people wearing shorts in churches etc) and have a propensity to expect everything to be just the same as at home. And then there’s the whole “American Hair” thing…
So sometimes it just comes down to manners. That’s why I like the Japanese tourists.
While there is a lot of negativity to the US at the moment I think there are other things in play as well.
When talking about international affairs it’s hard not to talk about the US’s foreign policy to some extent for another. A lot of Europeans would generally not share a lot of US political feelings and so come across as 100% against the US.
Also from my experience a lot of Americans seem to be more patriotic than most and take criticisms of their country very personal. I remember one incident when I was with a Brit and a Yank. The Brit and the Yank slagged Ireland off about shit services, alcoholism and terrorism, the yank and I slagged the Brit off about imperialism and arrogance. When the Brit and I leveled our guns at the Yank within 5 mins he was angry and stormed out of the pub in a temper.
Obviously this is a generalization but the majority of Americans I’ve met both in Ireland, Europe, S.E. Asia and America itself a lot seemed to not take criticism well YMMV
To clarify I’ve got to say that I see more than this, and this weekend was just an example. Mostly it’s Brits here but I don’t want to lump them into a group because some of my really good friends here are British and we all joke about Americans a lot. I also get emails often from the US Embassy warning me about all sorts of “threats”. While I do laugh some of them off I wonder if things are going on that I don’t sense because of language and cultural barriers.
It concerns me a great deal as I am an American considering living my entire life as an expat. I will always be an American even if I do manage to gain citizenship elsewhere (and I’d like to) I still appreciate that there are some great things that growing up American did for me even though I don’t want to live there anymore.
I try to be respectful of local customs of anywhere I visit and I have a sense of humor about myself. In many ways I am safer in Bangkok than in Philadelphia but I often wonder about the future.
yojimbo-you may be on to something. I’ve seen guidebooks to Ireland designed for US tourists that have a little section telling them not to take any criticisms seriously, being as how ripping the piss is one of our fine cultural traditions.
It’s a different mindset…Irish people don’t do “my country, right or wrong”, we have “my country’s a pile of shit, but at least I’m Irish”. It’s a subtle, but important, difference.
I don’t see anti-Americanism much here. And I don’t agree with owlstrechtingtime. I’d say American tourists are polite and kind. That might be because the Dutch aren’t known for being polite :D, but the good, old-fashioned kindness of Americans shines through.
I know tourists from other countries, known for their drunken weekends, or others, known for their arrogance, or others again, for their tendency to claim a peace of beach, hehehehe, but I’m sure they are all individuals and they have nothing to do with whatever country they’re from.
btw: Because I’m a red/blonde and my friends are very blonde, we’re always mistaken for Scandinavians, when in other countries.
In Turkey, a taxidriver said: “Ah! Swedish! Sex, sex, sex!”
