Anti-Feminism

[Jack_of_Words]

@ddsun

To clarify - Are you stating that the 19th Amendment, which guaranteed all American women the right to vote, only gave that right to some American women?

I find it a handy rule of thumb to suppose that any response, to anything or anyone, that begins “Are you saying […]?” always demands the answer “No, of course not, why would I be playing into your strawman?”

I’m not american, nor did I mention the 19th amendment. I did mention the suffragettes and suffragists, who fought for the ‘right’ of some women to vote while ignoring the voting rights of most men and most women. Address that, it would make you look so much clever than your tawdry little strawman.

@ddsun

Second - if you’re debating that 100 years ago right to vote advocates (clearly only some of them, see my first point) only felt that some women were entitled to vote, you could make exactly the same point about men. And how is that relevant to this thread anyway?

“If”. See above.

@ddsun

I think we wandered off to this point because someone had the nerve to suggest that women throughout known history have been treated as second class citizens, even property (hat-tipping aside).

No, hat-tipping and standing up and walking on the outside etc doesn’t get to be put aside (unless your argument is “Facts aside…”) We know what it is to make humans the property of other humans - it happened to men and women alike in many different ways around the world throughout history.

@ddsun

Someone asked for examples. Have some. It gets depressing very fast.

The right to vote
The right not to be beaten or killed by father, family or spouse
The right to own property in their own name
The right to earn and keep their own income
The right to decide whom to marry
The right to have sex outside of marriage
The right to keep their life if they are raped or otherwise considered unpure
The right to an education
The right to live outside of their father’s household as an adult, without a husband
The right to do research and publish the results under their own names
The right to have their own names - to this day society expects that my name is patronymic. I take my father or my husband’s name. The better to know to whom I belong.

We just covered the right to vote - once we had monarchs, with absolute rule (kings * and* queens). Along the way we had suffragettes arguing for some women to get the vote and most men (and women) not to.

Really, I’m not going to waste my time on a ‘knowledge’ of history derived from tumblr feminism. It’s all been a history of extending privilege, which was sometimes held by women at the expense of most men. That you rely on men thinking what they had is more important than what women had is effective, I grant you. I’ve been a primary caregiver - a stay-at-home dad. I valued it more than any job and any amount of money I’ve ever had…at least until that marriage ended and I realised I was doubly ******.

@ddsun

So what if upper class women got the door opened, they still didn’t get anything else.

The point was, they clearly weren’t property. Try to keep up.

@ddsun

All of which brings us back to why “feminism” in all of its multi-faceted glory exists in the first place, as well as how long its been growing and developing.

I thought it was because patriarchy damaged both genders? Did I get that wrong too, or did you just forget to mention one?

@ddsun

Can we just move this thread to the Pit now? We’re just circling.

We could be moving forward - I invited arguments as to why I should be a feminist again. Nobody seems to have any. Let’s just pit people who disagree with our treasured ideologies, that sounds like progress…