Anti-Feminism

Great Debates
21

Most movements follow the course of Thesis vs. Antithesis = Synthesis. Then the synthesis becomes a new thesis, vs. a new antithesis, world without end, amen.

Example: Capitalism responded to Communism with either Socialism as in Europe and the US, or repression as in Latin America. As a result, Europe, the US, the former USSR and China are capitalist, while the hard-liners on either side like North Korea and Paraguay are in pretty bad shape.

Is there a middle ground between Feminism and traditional gender roles?

22

Much of the time that’s true. A world class athlete vs. an average lady at a bar is like an adult vs. a child.

If a man and a woman don’t have too much of a physical discrepancy and the woman hits first though, let her have it.

23

Well, for most women, it’s them having the right to do everything a man does, but only if they want to. That’s the middle ground.

24

I agree, but I’m not arguing that women should be treated the same as men. I’m asking why feminists argue that, but only when it’s convenient.

But I disagree he responded with his full force; he neither wound up nor stepped into that punch. It was still enough to cut and blacken her eye, but it’s not his fault homegirl’s no good at taking a punch. She was more than willing to throw one.

25

Oh, women have needed men’s protection, all right – from other men; not from lions or tigers or bears.

26

She pushed him, was jawing at him (you can see her mouth running), then raised a clenched fist. He grabbed the wrist of her raised fist, she then kneed and hit him in the face. He hit her in the face and walked away.

At every stage she escalated the confrontation. It’s all in the video. I have no idea what else there is to know.

If it had been two men it would’ve been mutual combat: no charges or both charged. But since she’s a girl, he should know better.

27

I don’t think it’s always relevant to call feminism in. Not everything a woman does or doesn’t do needs to involve feminism. Two drunk people brawl. I’m not sure that’s really worth anyone’s time, figuring out who behaved “more” badly.

28

No, when the police, prosecutors, and judges treat a bar fight differently because the aggressor was female and not male, and in fact treat the aggressor as the victim because she’s a girl, feminism is relevant.

The only thing that excuses her behavior is her gender. (And her behavior WAS excused, she was not charged for pushing, kneeing, or punching the guy.)

29

Patriarchal culture harms men as well as women, and many feminists call this out quite frequently.

30

If feminism had a single consistent definition it could be argued for or against. But it doesn’t, it’s more of a Rorschach inkblot that reveals the biases of those who use the term.

31

Do you know they did that? It could just as easily be that she wasn’t charged because he was bigger/stronger and because the judges/prosecutors believed that he instigated the fight.

32

No. She was at the bar and he pushed her out of his way.

From the Deadspin article up thread -

From the Talahassee Democrat, which has a longer video -

He made first contact, trying to squeeze into the bar, rather than waiting his turn, and shoving her into the next person.

And she didn’t knee him, she tried to push him with her leg since he had already grabbed her arm.

It says a lot that you think this is relevant.

33

Right. There are many ways society could improve related to treatment of and opportunities for, girls and women. If that s feminism, sign me up. If such efforts end up taking away advantages men have historically enjoyed, that’s probably a good thing, even if you could say it makes things worse for some men. On the other hand, if a particular aspect of feminism unfairly hurts men, I think it’s fine to discuss that aspect without challenging the overall goals of feminism.

The OP seems to be a non-solution in search of a problem. As he notes, real men aren’t bothered by this.

34

He pushed her. If you look at the longer video he was pushing behind her, she turned around to say something, then he pushed her harder, and she threatens to punch, and then he grabbed her shoulder and pulled her hair, then she punched.

35

Lol. And it says a lot about you that you think quickly raising your knee into a guy’s crotch constitutes a “push”. God, that’s rich.

I’ve read the articles, which comport with the police take on the story, which justifies charges against him and not her.

But I can also watch the whole video without any commentary from others. And in the video, she clearly starts and escalates it. It doesn’t matter what the reporter says.

36

When did she “push” his crotch with her knee? Or did that now not happen?

37

If I started a thread called “anti-science” and then told everybody what scientists believe and why they’re full of shit, and then told everyone who responded that they were wrong if they thought scientists believed anything other than what I told them scientists believed, I don’t know if by the end of it I’d have convinced myself I was right about science.

But if I did it like 35 times, I’m pretty sure I would. The important thing is that I would not have actually gained any new information about what anyone else believes.

38

What?! He was behind her in the beginning when he started the problem (by shoving her).

39

Can you not see how not-crazy that sounds?

Feminists also want men to have the right to do everything a woman does, but only if they want to. The concept really isn’t that mind bending.

40

I’ve watched the video 5 times and I honestly can’t see how anyone can say that she escalated it. He jammed his elbow into her back. She turned around to tell him, and he pushed even harder. She raised her fist to warn him, and he pushed harder still and grabbed her.