Anti-Social dopers: Any psychopaths / sociopaths / ASPD peeps on the forum?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

No one with empathy can detach from it? IANA shrink, but that seems doubtful. Surely there are traumas and/or experiences when that could happen. Do you possibly mean to simply choose to no longer be empathic? How can you tell the difference between someone who suppresses their empathy and acts despite those feelings, and someone who lacks them altogether?

I’m thinking primarily about soldier in war, and others like concentration camp guards. It seems they are capable of either ignoring their feelings, temporarily switching them off, or maybe even switching them off toward some specific set of people.

And then there was that famous experiment (the name escapes me) where one set of people were designated guards and another set designated prisoners, and the experiment had to be halted because the guards began behaving too brutally to continue the experiment. I’m not sure that fits in, but it seems relevant somehow.

22

fascinating story from NPR on neuroscientist James Fallon who discovered he had the brain scan of a sociopath as well as the genetic marker that has been studied as a cause of violent behavior.

23

So, as a counter-point, many, many moons ago I lived with a guy. He acted charming, like I was the best thing in the world, like he was madly in love with me. We then moved in together and he quit his job, stole my credit card number, and killed some of my fish for sport. He also started a campaign of mental torture against me which probably would have worked better for him except I was smarter than he gave me credit for. I KNEW he was screwing with me - I just couldn’t figure out why.

So, fast forward 10 months and I’ve had enough of this crap. I tell him I’m moving out, he’s on his own, and I’m taking all my stuff, as well as all the stuff purchased while we were living together because I was the only one working so it’s all mine anyway. Surprisingly, we were fairly friendly during this whole time, me moving out leaving him in basically and empty apartment (he wound up moving in with a mutual friend in the same building).

At one point I asked him ‘Ok, now that we’re broke up, and I think you’re a total douche-bag anyway, WTF was going on for the last 10 months?’ He then told me that he thought he was a sociopath and had been playing me the whole time. He had no feelings for me or anyone else and never had. All his supposed angst was an act to try to garner sympathy.

Huh. Well, it certainly explained a lot of things.

So - was he really a sociopath? I don’t actually know; however, if you were to check through the DSM-IV list of criteria he meets almost all of them. He was never particularly violent (except to my poor fish) so I don’t think he’s a psychopath, but he sure doesn’t develop normal relationships with people.

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WILLOW: Thanks for having me over, Buffy. Especially on a school night and all.

BUFFY: No problem. Hey, sorry about your fish.

WILLOW: Oh, it’s okay. We hadn’t really had time to bond yet. Although for the first time I’m glad my parents didn’t let me have a puppy.

25

Hi

Thank you for your post and suggestions. I do have anger management issues. I did not realize that most people lack remorse when angry at someone.

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It is very difficult for doctors to diagnose SOME psychopaths/sociopaths. There is a book titled “The Sociopath next door” by Stout. It describes how cunningly charming these people can be and how they use their charm to manipulate other people including their doctors and psychiatrists.

This book will surprise you in that it talks about how ordinary people as well as psychiatrists, surgeons, politicians and respected high achieving members of society can and are sometimes sociopaths.

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Psychopaths aren’t necessarily violent. They are predators yes, but there are plenty of nonviolent ways to prey on people.

True. Sort of like being the kid whose dog really did eat his homework.

28

War is different. Once you engage the enemy, it’s critical to set aside your feelings and maintain focus. Same goes for revenge (best served cold, naturally) or dealing with a crisis such as a loved one in need of emergency aid.

In those cases, empathy takes a back seat temporarily; but what you feel after the crisis is over determines whether you are capable of feeling anything at all.

The Stanford Prison Experiment was indeed a disturbing view into human nature. There’s also Milgram, but that was more about quiescent submission to authority.

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This is why in wars there is a lot of propaganda portraying the opposite side as evil, or otherwise sub/non-human.

30

Humm - well he was certainly predatory, so maybe psychopath is accurate.

31

Welcome to the boards, MoGlow.

Hoo, boy, have you come to the right place! Lotta Dopers can sympathize with you.

Nobody likes to be proven wrong. However, if being out-argued is something that really messes with your head, you might not like it here. :smiley: We argue a lot.

Yeah, fuck those assholes!

You will again find much sympathy here for the divorce and for the crappy job.

32

Lack of empathy doesn’t always mean evil. Sometimes it can just mean lack of understanding…the inability to put oneself in another’s shoes.

For instance, a coworker might be at her desk, crying because her boyfriend just dumped her. I might not bear any ill feelings towards this coworker, but I can’t feel sorry for her. Her pain over being abandoned is so foreign to me that I cannot empathize. I might say a perfunctory “I’m sorry”, but not really mean it. In fact, I might feel like she’s stupid for even feeling anything. It’s just a guy. Why should she care what he thinks?

Even if the coworker were replaced by my sister, I would still not have empathy. But because I love my sister very much, I would feel sympathy because I wouldn’t want her to be in pain. A sociopath would lack both feelings.

(9/11 was really weird for me. My boss was standing right next to me, crying as the whole thing played out on the radio, and all I could do was wash my test tubes and say “Yes, it’s very horrible,” while inside I was thinking “Why is she being so hysterical?!” I couldn’t even feel moved to comfort her with a hug. I felt absolutely nothing until I got home and imagined the horror of a family member or myself leaping out of one of the towers. Personalizing it that way made me sad. But without making it all about “me” or someone close to me, I couldn’t feel anything. Don’t worry. I feel plenty of guilt.)

I’ve been diagnosed with schizoid PD, as a few in this thread may already know. It has nothing to do with any of the cluster B PDs, although I know it can be co-morbid with borderline and perhaps narcissicism PD. Schizoids tend to be sensitive individuals, but paradoxically they can also be characterized as having “lack of empathy”–a concept I don’t think most people seem to really get. I didn’t actually understand it until just recently. It doesn’t mean someone is evil, necessarily. It can sometimes just mean someone lacks imagination. :slight_smile:

It must be said: There are few “pure” examples of personality disorders. Even among sociopaths/anti-socials. For instance, people might assume I have no emotions–which would be a trait of a “pure” schizoid. I’ve been described as “emotionless” and “indifferent to everything”, and I do think I’m shut off from my feelings sometimes. But I do have emotions. I’m just not very expressive, and when I do get emotional, I rarely express them in public. If I won a million dollars, you better believe I’d feel happy. You’d have a hard time finding anyone who is 100% non-emotional…unless you include people who are in a catatonic stupor.

So it’s believable that a sociopath can be indifferent to the welfare of everyone. Everyone, that is, except for his beloved mother and his dog. He’d still be a sociopath, though. Just not an archetypal one.

Also, the borderline diagnosis gets tagged to “crazy” women disproportionately. But it’s hypothesized that many men also fit the criteria for BPD and are labeled with anti-social PD–a disorder disproportionately represented by men. Take of that what you will.

33

My mother was married to one before I was born. She would never tell me anything about her life during the years they were married.

34

Purplehorseshoe:

Thank you. It was difficult being raised by a mother that often acted like she was fixed in her terrible twos. Nothing I did was good enough, no matter what it was. My Father left her because he could not take it after awhile. It scares me that I have no empathy for her, now. My mother is always phoning me with some exaggerated sob story about her problems…never asks about mine, BTW. But, I do not care anymore. I used to care about her, as a kid, but now I don’t. That inability to get all worked up about her problems scares me a bit. I mean she is my mother. But, maybe my feelings are normal, given her psych issues and her abusive behaviors.

Thanks for the heads up. I do like a lively debate on message boards and when posting as a member on a message board I do not get angry if someone proves me wrong. I actually think I learned something and feel exhilarated by feisty debate. The odd thing is that I only get a little twisted in the head about being proven wrong, when I am in my moderator role. I guess it’s because that (at least in my mind) is my power role and if someone disses my power I get weird. I really hate that aspect of myself.

Thanks again for the support. I do know that I should not be unhappy when someone else is happy or successful, and I hate myself for feeling jealous of those people. I know they likely worked hard to get where they are. But then I start thinking,-- imagining really,-- that maybe they had supportive normal parents, and that starts bringing out my jealousy. When I know for sure that they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, it does not make me so jealous. If I think they pulled themselves out of the mire, that makes me more wistful than jealous. It makes me wish I could do the same.

35

I’m no psychiatrist, and I don’t even play one on TV, but I’d say anyone who’s capable of feeling guilt like you describe is no psychopath or sociopath, MoGlow.

<hijack>
Your mother sounds quite a bit like mine, and I have all the sympathy in the world for you as you outgrow childlike love and obedience and feel subsequent guilt over it. Something that’s very hard for anyone to understand is the whole “But she’s your mother!!1!” thing, and you’ll likely get shit from others the rest of your life about it… and also, will give yourself shit about it. However: giving birth does not magically give her the right to be a &*%$^ to you. After some point, you do have to start protecting yourself. Where that point is located is different for everyone.

A quick chat with a therapist might give you more perspective. It did for me. Doesn’t have to be a drawn-out thing; I think I saw her three times, and by the end of it, I knew enough to go on from there. Could also help you gain a handle on the anger you say you sometimes feel.

</hijack>

I believe it’s time for a quick thank you to you, monstro, and everyone else who’s putting personal stuff out there.

36

If you want to find full-fledged psycopaths and sociopaths there are certain message boards out there that they frequent such as CD an T:D

37

Moderator note:
fuzzypickles, please confine your comments to the subject at hand. If you really think Cheney is a psychopath, you can say so, but be prepared to justify your position in some fashion. Otherwise, take it to Great Debates, GQ, or the Pit as appropriate.

No warning issued.

38

Purplehorseshoe

I appreciate that information. My company health plan just added a minimal amount of psych coverage. I will take your advice and use it.

39

What’s the term for someone who’s overwhelmed by their empathy? I’m guessing straight up depression, am I wrong?