That is the best possible argument.
So what sort of arguments are statements like “Everybody ‘knows’ what marriage is” and “What supports all laws regarding marriage? Custom and only custom.”?
Is it too late for me to trade in my parents? I ask because my father is dead, and I wouldn’t mind having two parents again. 
I don’t care one whit about homosexual activity. It is not about that. It is about the meaning and nature of marriage. Homosexuals *do *have the right to marry. Hasn’t anyone noticed? The only restriction is that I has to be someone of the *opposite *sex, because that’s what marriage is.
I think we finally have common ground. Indeed, that is the best possible argument you can make.
There is a difference between custom and popular opinion. Do I have to explain it to you?
I think you will.
No, it is the meaning of the word, which is unassailable.
What do you think custom is, except argumentum ad populum? The opinion of the people is changing, and therefore the custom is changing. The previous custom was to be surprised and shocked at the very idea of same-sex marriage. Now the custom of most people is more like “Oh? That’s nice.” The meaning of the word “marriage” has expanded in most people’s minds to include same-sex couples. That is how the meanings of words do, in fact, change. This is one case where the majority does rule with a benevolent despotism, and you are now in the minority.
Your argument seems to be that nothing can or should change, ever. I really don’t see how you can hold that view in any consistent way. You asked what about murder? I ask what about slavery? What was once a benign custom is now considered abhorrent, and rightly so.
Ooh ooh, I know! Custom is what you think and popular opinion is what everyone else thinks?
I am too busy, perhaps you can take some time and educate yourself.
I looked it up. It’s the sum total of opinions over time, thus, argumentum ad populum. Or if you prefer, appeal to tradition.
You mean the meaning of this word?
Isn’t your backing for this the idea that for 40,000 years people have used it to mean one thing?
So it’s not unassailable, by your basis. All you’d need is 40,000 years of people using it to mean something else.
According to the states argument (from what I can tell) that would be fine, but only if it’s same sex parents.
Are there any other words that have this kind of ‘set-in-stone’ meaning or is this the only one?
As far as I know there are two people, Melchior being one of them, on this board who have, “Marriage means a man and a woman because that’s what it means” as the main core of their argument. The argument never changes and the primary rebuttal to any counter argument is, “No, that’s what it means.”.
“You can marry someone, but only if you don’t find them attractive”. :rolleyes:
A line of argument which is sadistic, and no better than trying to argue against interracial marriage by claiming that people are allowed to marry, as long as they marry someone of the same skin color.
And no, that is not what marriage is about.
It’s not only assailable, it’s outright silly to say so. Like it or not same sex people are getting married, right now, and their marriage is just as valid as anybody else’s.
And judging by history, in a few decades your way of thinking will be essentially dead in most of the West. Just as opposition to interracial marriage is essentially dead.
Considering what a custom is, this argument is absolutely not a fallacy. I’m arguing that same-sex marriage is becoming part of custom – and a big reason for this is how popular it is becoming.
To Melchior – if same-sex marriage is legal, and if the vast majority accept it, and it’s common for a hundred years, would you admit that at that point it’s become custom? How about a thousand years? Is there any point at which it would become part of custom?