Treated by whom? under what circumstances? You don’t get the point at all. It’s not ‘real’, not the genuine 1921 peace dollar. It wasn’t made in 1921, it’s not made of silver. It’s a copy, a fake.
The dictionary defines “Melchior” as one of the three supposed Wise Men. Therefore, this “Melchior” cannot possibly exist.
Felchior is a shit stain on this board.
I’m pretty sure I get your point fine. I think you’re missing my point. It’s still a dollar if society agrees on it.
Nah, I’m just working on speaking Melchior-ese. I think I’m pretty much there; just trying to lose my accent.
No, you’re not.
I mean, not an argument.
It’s not the 1921 peace dollar, that’s my point. You miss my point! The 1921 peace dollar has to have been made in 1921 and be made of silver. The 1921 Morgan dollar is much commoner and has much less value. It has nothing to do with ‘agreement’.
http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_dollars/peace_dollars/1921_peace_dollar_obv.jpg
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/msfa3GGQYjEOoaCJCoicXwA.jpg
That word is NOT IN THE DICTIONARY, sir!
That depends on what your definition of the word “is” is.
And you’re missing my point. However you want to slice it, if the 1921 peace dollar – real or fake – is treated as a 1921 peace dollar by social contract or law, it is, for all purposes, a 1921 peace dollar. You can further divide it up to “original” 1921 peace dollar and “reissue/reprint/modern” 1921 peace dollar if you wish, but it’s a 1921 peace dollar.
I personally was trying to concentrate more on the “dollar” and “marriage” part, because that seems more the pertinent analogy than trying to argue about a very specific subset of those concepts. It makes a lot more sense to me to compare the broad idea of a “dollar” with the broad idea of a “marriage” than to compare the very specific 1921 peace dollar with the broad concept of “marriage.”
You’re starting to mix economics with what is a linguistic argument, but I’ll briefly play. Yes, yes it does have to do with agreement. The market has to agree on a value, just like we agree on meaning. I don’t care what the value of those two dollars are right now. If, for some reason, people decide that the 1921 peace dollar is interchangeable with the 1921 Morgan dollar, and in practice there is free 1:1 exchange of those dollars, then they are both equal in value. Just like value is mutable, so is language.
So I’m at the bank, looking to open a checking account, and the guy standing next to me says “Hey, make sure you sign with blue ink; it’s a pro forma requirement.”
And the branch manager, walking by, stops and says “What? No, that’s not true at all. For most accounts, we let you sign with ink of whatever color you like; for some, we have a pro forma requirement allowing you to use ink of any color other than blue. Your claim was perfectly intelligible, but utterly incorrect.”
I think the other guy was Melchior.
Again, you miss my point entirely. We have three ‘coins’ all dated 1921. One is a 1921 Morgan dollar (about 50 million or so were made). One is a 1921 peace dollar (less than a million were made) and a copper ‘fake’ 1921 dollar with the peace dollar design on it. The value of the silver coins is not in question, which is a function of supply and demand. Two of these are ‘1921 silver dollars’, one is not. It is a ‘fake’ 1921 silver dollar. get it now? This has nothing to do with ‘agreement’. The ‘fake’ 1921 peace dollars exist because the real ones are scarce and costly. The design was very hard to produce properly because of the high relief, and the relief was reduced in 1922.
This is one of those threads where I seriously have to question why anybody continues to engage this dumb-ass motherfucker. I called troll on page 2, and nothing he’s posted since has convinced me otherwise. I know, Poe’s Law and everything, but I still can’t believe he’s serious - using the most cartoonish parodies of anti-SSM arguments and refusing to even give the impression that he comprehends the counter-arguments doesn’t shout out “sincere but misguided” to me . Even magellan01 sounds rational by comparison. This has got to be the most pointless thread currently going on the boards.
A dollar is what the government and public consensus agree is a dollar.
If the government says a gold disk with a picture of Sacagawea on it is a dollar, and the majority of people agree that it’s a dollar, then it’s a dollar. The fact that the gold disk is not a green piece of paper is immaterial.
Note that government endorsement and public consensus are intertwined. Currencies not endorsed by governments tend to be unstable as stores of value. And if the public loses confidence in a currency, then it will cease to have value even if the government still claims it does.
If the government says that gay marriage is legal and most Americans accept it as valid then gay marriage is legal and valid. There is no other standard by which legality and validity can be judged.
Now, you personally are welcome to pretend that Sacagawea dollars are not “real dollars”. You can treat them as “counterfeit dollars” – throw them in the trash, give them away. But no one else is required to respect your eccentric opinion. You’ll simply be another ignorant crank with delusional ideas about how the world works.
But it’s fun! We need a moron every so often to bring some amusement to our lives.
You’re so cute when you’re being dumb.
And no, this isn’t an argument, just an observation.
They are all “real dollars” if they are treated as such in practice, just like “same sex marriage” and “opposite sex” marriages are “real marriages” if they are treated as such in practice. This is very simple.
And supply and demand actually do play in well to the analogy. Those coins are worth what they are worth through the marketplace (or by fiat). Similarly, words mean what they mean through the linguistic marketplace. The 1921 peace dollar does not have any inherent “worth” except perhaps the one dollar as defined by law. If nobody collects 1921 peace dollars, nobody gives a shit. The 1921 is worth what it is worth because the marketplace says it is worth that. That’s it. Similarly, words mean what they mean because the speakers say that’s what it means.
"“It is now conceded that all idea of British intervention is at an end… I want to hug the army of the Potomac. I want to get the whole army of Vicksburg drunk at my own expense. I want to fight some small man and lick him.”
- Henry Adams
No, you miss my point, again. Read and understand. What year is it? 2014, not 1921. For it to be a ‘real’ 1921 silver peace dollar, it has to have been:
- made in 1921
- composed of the silver alloy
- be of the ‘peace’ design
Not one of these things has anything whatsoever to do with ‘agreement’!
The copper is a fake, is not made of silver alloy, and was not made in 1921. Is it really that difficult for you to grasp this distinction, that the copper piece just looks like the 1921 silver dollar? that it is a *fake *1921 peace dollar?