Any dopers with bad joints? (advice)

In My Humble Opinion
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Pre-emptive note: I am not asking for medical advice. I do not want medical advice. Please do not reply to this with ‘go to a doctor’, because as you’ll soon read, I’ve been to a doctor, know what the problem is, and also, have no way to go to a doctor. So, please. Don’t tell me that.

Now then: I’ve got a chronic knee problem (patellar tendonitis, both knees, from overtraining in martial arts). I’ve been (for the past few years, since the problem started), wearing an athletic brace when I work out (you know, the slide-on elastic type). It helps a teeny bit, not too much. A lot of times at night and/or when it’s cold, my knees sort of…ache (in addition to hurting on and off when I use them).

So, my question is twofold: Any advice as to how to best deal with aching joints? If I can be bothered, I’ll wrap my knees (the warmth seems to help), and take ibuprofen, which I’ve heard is best, but I don’t know how true that is.

Also, for anyone with knee trouble in general - I’ve seen ‘knee straps’ before. They appear to be straps of elastic or whatnot that you fasten right beneath your knee, and allegedly it helps, by doing…something. Anyone tried these?

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I also have bad knees - have for years - and am all too familiar with the aching of which you are complaining. I have braces that I should probably wear more often, but they primarily keep my kneecap in place, and don’t help alleviate the achiness even when I do wear them. Ibuprofen is my friend except when I will be drinking or when I have my period; thinner blood is only a benefit in so many situations.

I have never heard of these knee strap things, and my dad is a physical therapist, so I either have a completely wrong mental picture of them or they’re some kind of new age crap like copper bracelets. (Yes, I know some people swear by copper bracelets for arthritis, but I still have not seen any scientific proof that they’re anything other than a placebo.)

Upon preview, I realise that this post is completely unhelpful. Sorry about that. I can commisserate with the sucky pain part, at least.

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Yeah, I just rolled one last night. :smiley: (So sorry, but I couldn’t resist)

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I’ve got a similar problem with my knee. Braces don’t help, because all they do is force the patella into what is (for me) an unnatural position.

Three things help: Good anti-inflammatory drugs, heat, and a good pair of well-fitting, well-cushioned running shoes. The anti-inflammatory drugs help keep the inflammation at bay, as does the heat. For that, a good hot soak in the tub generally does the trick, although a heating pad also works. The running shoes help keep my feet and ankles well-supported and stable, so I can’t twist my knees around and hurt them worse. They also make me walk correctly and reduce stress on my knees that way.

Robin

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Ninja count yourself among the lucky if your “bad joint” is from tendonitis. I’ve got 2 torn menisci and a surgically repaired ACL – repaired with my patellar tendon, which consequently seems to be in a constant state of tendonitis.

As you mentioned, the likely cause is overtraining. The best cure is, logically, cutting back.

But, that’s no fun.

Braces and wraps are more typically for things like torn ligaments where you have to stabilize the knee.

Anti-inflammatories should help with the pain and inflammation. But, with serious tendonitis with me in the past, I’ve usually just cut back a little and toughed it out. I don’t think you have to cut back completely, but YMMV. If you do cut back on the martial arts, you might be able to stick in another acticity that uses the joint in a different way (but that’s just kind of one of my theories from experience. I don’t know if its valid).

Alleve is a better ant-inflam for me. It uses naproxen (or naprocin), not ibuprofen. I don’t know if they’re the same thing, but I don’t think they are.

Oh, yeah, IANAD – just a guy with knee problems for the last 12 years.

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Over the last 3 years my knees have become progressively worse - making grinding and clicking noises, stiffening up at rest and aching. My doctor checked them out and says it’s just age and wear and tear, the joints are actually stable and function OK. A few weeks ago I was at the point where after getting up and showering I would have to crab sideways down the stairs holding the bannister. Walking would loosen my knees up but any extended period sitting down and they would be “frozen” again.

A workmate trying to encourage me to play cricket with his team poo-pooed my knee complaints. He said he used to be like that and started taking fishoil capsules and his problem was fixed. He was so adamant that they would work I bought a bottle and started taking 2 a day. Within 4 or 5 days my knees were noticably better. Weeks later they still are. They are still as noisy and don’t “feel quite right” but they don’t seize up now, they never ache and walking up and down stairs is back to being no big deal. I don’t have to make all the contortions that were required for getting in and out of cars, showers and chairs any more.

These are what I am taking.

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My bad knees are from arthritis and a Baker’s cyst, and naproxen was my very best friend until I went on Celebrex. Now, due to stomach surgery, all NSAID’s (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) are off-limits to me, so Tylenol is all I can take. When I was having physical therapy for the knees, I loved the electrode stimulation thingy and the ice. I asked about heat, and the therapist said “absolutely not”. I didn’t believe her, and one day at home applied a heating pad…instant agony! When I told her, at my next session, she told me heat was fine if it’s the whole body (bath or shower) but for direct application, only ice, and only 20 minutes at a time. This works extremely well for me…many’s the night I’ve crawled into bed with icepacks on both knees after an eight hour shift on my feet. (the gel cold pack I use only lasts about 20 minutes, so if I fell asleep it was okay).

Since I’ve lost weight from the surgery, I haven’t even had to take Tylenol. The knees still ache, and I am very careful on stairs, but the pain isn’t nearly as bad.

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There are some anti inlfamatories that work better than Ibuprofin. Unfortunately, VIOXX is one of them and that has just been recalled.

I have a ‘bad’ knee and a bad thumb. The knee is discomfort, but the thumb is arthiritis and tendonitis. It can produce a sharp blinding pain which takes me out of commission for a few mins.

VIOXX and rest helped my get my thumb back to ‘tolerable’. Actually, with rest, strengthening and the best antiinlfamatory for the job, the condition can improve over the long haul. Maybe you can seek out a prescrip drug simialr to VIOXX and get some rehab and stremghtening program from a pro therapist.

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“…many’s the night I’ve crawled into bed with icepacks on both knees…” Kittenblue, I saw that as “icepicks on both knees,” and I thought, “Yeah, I know that feeling.”

Ninjachick, here’s a question for you. When you do a squat, slowly, does your patella track straight, or does it pull over to the side? When I had patellar tendinitis, the physical therapist saw my kneecap pulling sideways. A set of exercises were presrcibed to strengthen the VMO (Vastus Medialus Something.) Your quadriceps muscle group is controlled by two nerves; one for the outer three muscles and one for the VMO, the inner one. With the use of a biofeedback gadget, I learned to know by feel when I was tightening the VMO. After a few weeks of focused exercises, my kneecap was tracking straight, and the tendinitis went away.

I’m into marital, not martial arts, and I’m not a doctor. :slight_smile:

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Unfortunately, that’s not my problem. It’s just plain old “I use my knees too much so they don’t like me” stuff.

Thank you for the suggestions…is this (mentioned several times, I believe) naproxen OTC? Perscription meds (and a doc to give them) aren’t an option for me right now.

Trunk, what you said about braces/wraps makes me wonder. When I did originally see a doctor for this problem (about 4 years ago), he actually told me to do that. Hmm.

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NinjaChick, I used to have constantly achey knees, either from practicing Kung Fu, or from age. Or from practicing Kung Fu while aged. I used to liberally dose my knees with Bio-Freeze before practicing, and of course liberally dose myself with Ibuprofen after. This worked “okay”, but just okay.

Then Mrs. Genghis Bob found some stuff called “Move Free”. It’s over-the-counter, medium-giant sized pills packed with glucosamine (sic), condroitin (sic sic), all sorts of good stuff. Her chiropractor recommended it; we found it at Costco (and, I think, Walgreens);

I started out taking two of 'em a day; it takes about two to four weeks of daily dosing, but damned if the stuff doesn’t work great. I can take stairs two at a time now, and I almost never get knee pain like I used to.

I have no idea how serious your condition might be in comparison to mine; my pain was probably entirely practice-related, but this Move Free stuff worked great.

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The OTC Aleve is naproxen. My doc recommended it for my tendonitis (elbow) but I was not thrilled with the results and went back to ibuprofen (Advil).

Ok, I have a bad knee but its from osteoarthritis, and I have tendonitis, but not in my knee. So I guess I’m half qualified X 2 to answer your question. :smiley:

re: tendonitis. Have you tried a compression sleeve for your knee? I have this thingy for my elbow, it’s just a tube of woven fabric that’s stretchy, that I wear over my elbow. It’s about 8 or 10 inches long, and machine washable. I tried to get my PT to explain why it made my arm feel so frickin’ much better, but I got a little lost. Basically, what I gleaned is that it keeps inflammation out of the area and at the same time gently massages it. I’m not sure where you can get a piece of this material other than at a physical therapist’s, but you might give support hose a try just by way of experiment. A pull-on brace that covers most of your knee might have a similar effect.

re: icing: highly recommended for both my knee when I overdo it and elbow tendonitis. There are two methods: passive icing and ice massage.

*You know what passive icing is: you hold the cold thing to the thing that hurts. 10 minutes on, take it off for 10 minutes, and then back on for another 10 (total elapsed time: 30 minutes. total icing time: 20 minutes). BTW, you can make a cheap reusable “slush pack” by mixing 1/2 cup rubbing alchohol with 1 cup water in a ziploc, and freezing it. As you may know, never passive ice against bare skin – always have a cloth barrier to prevent frostbite.

*In ice massage, you actively rub the place that hurts with bare ice (water frozen in a dixie cup is generally recommended). You move the ice constantly, rubbing in a generally circular manner around the affected area, and you do it for about 5-7 minutes. Keep peeling back the dixie cup as the ice melts. As you ice massage it should go from “feeling cold” to “deep aching” to “totally numb.” Let me reiterate, never stop moving the ice, or, once again, frostbite. (no cloth barrier with ice massage).

The benefits of both types of icing last about 4-6 hours per application, so 3 times per day is ideal. I used to do ice massage at work (quicker) and passive when I got home (lazier). And the sooner after strain you ice, the better off you are. So, for example, ice immediately after practice or the minute you get home.

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Thanks, vinryk, you saved me the trouble…

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Well, like I said, IANAD.

I always thought that those things were for stabilization.

Now, MAYBE, the tendonitis comes from the tendon rubbing somewhere it shouldn’t, or getting out of place and a brace/sleeve/wrap/whatever COULD help with it. That’s just not how I thought they worked and I wouldn’t think to use one for tendonitis.

If it helps, stick with it.