Any factual / mathematical basis for Nassim Taleb's "intransigent minority" theory?

What an odd book. Every third sentence seems to be a rant against “intellectuals” in general and economists in particular. He repeats the phrase “skin in the game” so many times it has ceased to mean anything (and I’m only about halfway through), and he seems to be assuming that his readership has already eagerly devoured everything he has already written.

I find myself bouncing back and forth between two responses: “Yes, you’re right, but who cares, that’s obvious” and “No, you’re wrong.”

Example of the first: he seems very pleased with himself about the kosher pop example, but as someone upstairs points out this is not especially newsworthy or interesting. Another example, more broad: he seems to think he is the only person who has ever thought about this kind of stuff; I read, a few years back, a book by an economist (guess this is why Taleb wasn’t familiar with it) suggesting that things like jury trials would go a lot better if jurors had more “skin in the game.” (One specific suggestion, which was remarkably stupid but never mind, was that if a jury wished to declare a criminal defendant not guilty, each juror should be forced to host the defendant in his or her own home for one month following the trial.) Same basic idea.

Example of the second: his argument, such as it is, about smoking sections would be more compelling if the trend were going toward allowing smoking in indoor places everywhere; but of course, that is not the case. I think it has been five years since I was last in a place that actually had an indoor smoking section. The minority has lost this one pretty big time. Another example: my wife and son have celiac disease, and cannot eat gluten. I can assure you that while restaurants do increasingly offer GF alternatives, it is by no means the case that restaurants, conferences, festivals, family gatherings, etc., have all gone GF to suit the wishes of the minority. One reason: too expensive. Another: some people really don’t want GF food, or think they don’t.

Anyway–yes, sometimes his examples are accurate (but so what) and sometimes his thesis doesn’t make sense at all (which he doesn’t seem to notice). Because of that, returning to the OP and the question stated there, I would be very very surprised if there’s any mathematical basis for the theory, given that it doesn;t seem to work all that often.

(My best example of the “intransigent minority” theory, which I don;t believe Taleb mentions: my local district closes schools on Rosh Hashanah and on Yom Kippur. Thus, despite the fact that the schools are over 80% African American and Jewish students probably make up no more than 2-3%. Even with those numbers, easier to close the schools that day for everyone than to open and have a few Jewish parents be mad at the administration…)

Going to agree with what others have said. A vocal minority vs an apathetic majority is just a no-brainer. The soft drink example is just plain stupid. (A) I had no idea soft drinks could be kosher, (B) I don’t care whether they are kosher, and © it makes no noticeable difference whatsoever.

Wooo! Another win for the little guy! Take THAT America!

I feel like the alien nurse on Rick & Morty… “Okay! That was always allowed!”

What a strange article. He starts off talking about kosher lemonade and veers off into a strange and personal rant about GMO foods.

If it’s for the same reason Montgomery County, MD schools close for the High Holy Days, it’s not because of the number of Jewish students. It’s that there’s so many Jewish teachers that there wouldn’t be enough substitutes available if they all took the days off.

Why would he think that smoking, and specifically smoking sections in public places, was an issue that exemplifies a small minority vs. apathetic majority? Both smokers and non-smokers are passionate about this issue.

I’ve seen this explanation before for–well, not Montgomery County, but others like it. It’s not valid for my district, which has only a small number of Jewish teachers. In this case it’s an artifact of a time forty or fifty years ago when more of the white families in the district sent their kids to the local schools. The Jewish population of the city is actually pretty significant, but like most of the middle-class white families (and many of the middle-class black families) they now send their kids to non-public schools. Or they raise their kids in nearby districts and move back when the kids are in college… But the calendar is still based on the notion that lots of students will stay home. Strange!

Oh, your guess is as good as mine. I’d say that he has written the book using the strategy “Include Lots of Things, and Don’t Think Too deeply about Whether They belong.” Possibility Two: he uses the opportunity to tell an anecdote about smoking sections, an anecdote which he clearly thinks is very funny, so maybe including that Humorous Story was the goal and it doesn’t matter that it doesn’t fit his argument.

Peep this:

So there is your mathematical basis…

Perhaps the best example has to do with Jewish Holy Days and Israeli politics. When I was in Jerusalem a few years ago, almost nothing was open the Sabbath. the transit was shut down. I read there was a movement to force restaurants to be all kosher. The idea was that a significant number of Israelis did not care (heck, 20% are not Jewish) but the rules are turned into laws by the minority heavily orthodox parties that have the swing vote in the Knesset. Any government that wants their support must cater to some of their demands.

This is probably a closer example of the excess influence of a minority. Some voters feel deeply about a single subject to the point where they will vote for a small minority party that reflects their views. Politics ensures that group has a disproportional influence. A similar influence can be seen perhaps in the US abortion debate. The majority feels that abortion should be legal in most or all cases, but consistently politicians influenced by (pandering to) vocal minorities seem to try to make it as restrictive as possible. Again, the political system abets the process - primaries are generally seen as less important, so organized and dedicated single-issue groups can have an outsized influence on who wins those to become the candidate.

The American populace is about equally split into those who think that abortion should always be legal, those who think that it should never be legal, and those who think that it should be legal in some cases but not others. Both sides thereby manage to claim to be a 2/3 majority.

But non-smokers being passionate about non-smoking sections is a (relatively) recent phenomenon. When you have a situation where 20% of people would be upset if they could not smoke in a particular place and 80% did not care if smoking were permitted, but if pressed, they would prefer it not be, then smoking is allowed.

It is a pretty well known phenomenon in society, economics, and politics, and this guy did not invent it. And it is not a matter of the minority steamrolling over the majority. There really isn’t a majority in such circumstances; it’s that the majority is first and foremost in the “I don’t care” category.

It’s sort of like when you have a few people over and are trying to decide on pizza toppings. I would like a meat lovers, the guy next to me doesn’t like onions on his pizza, the next guy likes black olives, his wife hates black olives, so you know what, we get a pepperoni pizza.

Even though if everyone in the group was ordering his own pizza, maybe one or maybe none would order a pepperoni pizza, it is one thing that everyone can live with.

Right, that’s an excellent example of a way to skew the system to ensure that a minority actually gets to act like a majority.

But that seems very different from Taleb’s point (and the OP’s question), which is: how does a minority “wear down” a majority to get what it wants while still being a minority and while the majority allows it to happen?

This fits Taleb’s general media strategy, which is to say strange things and repeat them and then laugh as though he has told a joke.

He appears to find it funny, for example, that he orders pastis in the Delta club.

Taleb went off the rails over an Amazon review of “Skin In The Game” (which actually was partially complimentary), repeatedly attacking several critical commenters with the same cut-and-pasted diatribe about them supposedly being shills for Monsanto. Apparently if you take issue with Taleb, you must be a corporate stooge.

I got the impression he is in need of mental health care.

If the majority is truly indifferent, it seems they are not in the game at all. Only if a question requires a majority of the eligible participants to vote for it to pass, rather than a majority of the votes, is there any need to “wear down” anybody at all. Certainly you will be “allowed” to sell kosher drinks if nobody cares. On the other hand, there are some countries where it is difficult or impossible to sell kosher meat, because people do care about ritual slaughter enough to ban such practices.

Let me recall another mathematical aspect of disproportionate influence, that of the Shapley value: simply by being a key element of a coalition, an arbitrarily small party’s influence is blown up beyond its numbers. This seems to be at the root of md2000’s observation that buses in Jerusalem do not run on the Sabbath: the majority of people would undoubtedly like public transportation, but religious fundamentalist parties are able to interfere with planning for political reasons. I would not call this “wearing down”, though, unless people are so used to these sorts of shenanigans that they indeed stand by and let it happen. It is more like “holding the majority by the balls” by controlling things such that without you, nothing can get done, so you get what you want. But in a situation like a strike, the words “wear down the majority” may be accurate, since people will finally care about some civil servant’s 5% pay raise after a little while of being deprived of transport, medical care, food, or even much more minor things.

Say you have a group of 40 concerned citizens who want to erect a sign reminding people to change their clocks for Daylight Saving. A graphic designer makes a mock-up that shows green text on a red background. One member of the group reports that as a color blind person he has trouble reading the sign and asks the group to make it a simple black-on-white sign. The group agrees because who cares what color it is as long as people can see it and it conveys the proper message.

An idiot may rant about a sinister Color Blind Agenda working its way through society and robbing the world of color. But really it’s just a simple case of accommodating people without inconveniencing someone else. Like many portions of the Americans with Disabilities Act which require you to add ramps or railings; they don’t get in the way of people who don’t need them but greatly help the people that do. Again, this should just be common sense to support the minority in ways that don’t harm the majority.

That greatly inconveniences owners of places where there is a significant change in elevation between the parking lot and the building. Like my dentist’s office. When he redid the entryway, he had to add a huge sweeping ramp to accommodate the disabled. That meant it took a lot longer to get that area done, during which patients had to come in through a different door, through what was normally the dentist’s private office. So the added convenience for the disabled that wasn’t necessary before the remodeling ended up causing at least some inconvenience for everyone else.

Not to say that we should just screw over the disabled, but it’s not like there’s no repercussions to mandating access for them.

John Crace’s short and humorous ‘Digested Read’ of the book in the Guardian is pretty good.

Skin in the Game by Nassim Nicholas Taleb – digested read

“This book is 25% probability theory, 25% classical anecdotes, 25% stating the bleeding obvious, and 25% complete bullshit.”