Watch Ace0Spades Squirm

The BBQ Pit
1

Let’s try this again, shall we?

In this thread, Ace0Spades makes a truly shocking claim:

I don’t know whether to be amused or surprised. Ace, more left-wing than V.I. Lenin, who believes every corporate conspiracy theory in America provided that the token Republicans are involved, is evidently an unabashed racist.

His casual remark has several unsettling implications.

It places the interpretation of individual conduct firmly within the purview of the ethnic/religious/racial majority. If members of a disadvantaged minority group fail to buck the “stereotype,” somehow they are inviting ethnic insults.

It creates a behavioral double standard. White, Anglo Protestants only have to endure personal insults when they are cheap. But, god forbid, if a Jew is cheap, then by all means, let the majority invoke popular prejudice against his religion and ethnicity in addition to personal aspersions against his character.

It creates in environment in which it is actually permissible to invoke said stereotypes, an environment in which ignorance thrives.

It puts an undue burden on members of minority groups to cast off the stereotype actively instead of enjoining members of the majority to battle their own ignorance. Why should blacks, Jews, and the French change just because Ace0Spades chooses to persist in his unreasoned opinions?

By all means, Ace, call me a crank. But if I were you, I would be careful what stereotypes you are invoking on yourself.

2

Oh goody, this again.

3

I agree with the OP – stereotypes are bad.

4

Well, if you look like a crank, and act like a crank and sound like a crank . . .

5

weak, very weak. no fire-in-the-belly. I give it a 3.5.

NEXT!

6

Another thing that really gets me here is the dismissing of the issue involving the rather large group of people who get “whacked” by stereotypes without being like them.

Your comment seems to imply that the stereotypes melt away for people who try to break free from them. That they don’t suffer from them because they don’t act like all the other deserving sods.

I dunno what to say, Ace, except to hope that I’m reading too much into what you said.

7

I don’t see anything worth squirming about here.

8

You are not a crank, IMHO.

I think you have brought up some valid points.

This is a board that fights against ignorance. To support stereotypes is ignorant and stupid.

9

Should I get my nose fixed and change my name?

10

I’ve always pictured you as an actual bean - a string bean, to be exact. Although I left out arms and fingers, you do have feet. And for some reason, glasses. So when I read this, I got all confused, because beans don’t even have noses.

Maybe I’ll go lie down for a bit.

11

Maeglin, who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel? Or in AceoSpades’ case, an exceptionally stupid butterfly. Ace has proven his inability to reason in thread after thread. Why even waste the pixels, since he will never, never, never, never profit by it? Never try to teach a pig to sing; it only wastes your time and annoys the pig.

12

One thing that gets me though is what if the “stereotype” is simply part of who you are? Or what you like to do?

Like, I’m Greek-American. I suppose a stereotype could be that Greeks eat Gyros. Well, fuck! I LIKE GYROS and so when I want one, I EAT ONE and like it! So, that fits into the stereotype, I guess… but, I LIKE GYROS! So, whether or not it happens to be a stereotype wouldn’t really matter to me.

A better example would be an aspect of one’s personality. Take a gay man, any gay man. He’s flamboyant because that’s part of who he is, not because he’s gay. However, it happens to fit the stereotype of gays. But, why should that matter if it’s PART OF WHO HE IS?

Does that make sense?

The way I see it is that the reason why stereotypes exist is because they’re either largely(not mostly and certainly not all) true or they’re based on the most visible group. But, I think stereotypes aren’t exactly a good thing be they positive or negative. I guess it’s just all too easy to do though.

13

Oh boy! What a shocker! Opposing stereotypes, such a bold stand you take! Let’s see…obligatory “fighting ignorance” remark…check…ambivalent one-line responses…check. Yep, nothing interesting here.

In all fairness, the OP makes some decent points, but I can’t believe this is the thing he chooses to Pit somebody over. Aren’t we all pretty tired of having the “stereotypes are bad” discussion? This sounds like the sort of thing to be discussed on a braindead MTV “political” special from 1994, featuring interviews with Patty Ireland and Dr. Dre. :: Looks around for Kurt Loder or Kennedy ::

14

I guess I have to be butch now. Because butch isnt - oh, wait a minute, butch is a stereotype of men! Men can’t be butch, and gay men can’t be femme now. I’m so confused!

15

Where is the Squirming? I was Promised Squirming!!! I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!!

::So desperate for squirming Tars pulls our his copy of the SQUIRM movie::

16

You’re kinda missing the point. Stereotypes are generally based on A)false generalizations, and B)ignorance about the actual nature and diversity of the ethnic or religious group in question. When you invoke a stereotype, you are asserting that certain traits are common to all members of that group. That is not the same thing as noting the differences in culture among different groups.

Japanese and Koreans learning English often have trouble in pronouncing the letters “r” and “l” distinctly. That does not mean that they go around saying, “Me so solly, you wantee flied lice?”

Black American culture has traditionally valued people with musical skills. That does not mean that any given black person can carry a tune in a bucket.

Using stereotypes to classify or describe people is demeaning because it replaces the uniqueness of the individual with the crude tin stamp of one or two traits that are meant to describe all members of that group.

Again, take black Americans as an example. What stereotype can fully describe Maya Angelou, Dr. Dre, Colin Powell, Ol’ Dirty Bastard, Shaquille O’Neal, Condoleeza Rice, Wynton Marsalis, Will Smith, Jesse Jackson, and Urkel? I say that none can or should.

17

Great, TT, not I have random lines from that episode of MST3K floating through my head.

“Whoa, the worms tackled him.”
“Go on South. Secede again. We won’t stop you.”
“AhIdidn’tseeyouthere.”
“Screw the Olympics.”

18

let me tell you about how great springs are…

19

[small hijack]

In my Principles of Language Learning class, I learned (IIRC) that “r” and “l” are actually the same sound in these languages. Like the English “s” (which can sound like /s/ or /z/), the placement of the letter determines the sound. Again, IIRC–the sound is “r” when the position is initial, and “l” if intermedial or final. Similarly, the /th/ sound does not exist in Spanish, which is why you hear such things as “I tink he was wrong,” etc. Fascinating class.

[/small hijack]

20

“You’re kinda missing the point. Stereotypes are generally based on A)false generalizations, and B)ignorance about the actual nature and diversity of the ethnic or religious group in question.”

Oh, I see. I thought I might have been, but I wasn’t sure, which is why I wrote what I wrote. I pretty much agree with the OP that a person shouldn’t have to change their behavior because an aspect of themselves might happen to fit a stereotype. I thought that was what he was trying to say anyway.

“Using stereotypes to classify or describe people is demeaning because it replaces the uniqueness of the individual with the crude tin stamp of one or two traits that are meant to describe all members of that group.”

Oh, I knew that. :smiley: But, I guess I wasn’t too accurate in believing that stereotypes existed because they were largly true. That was an oopsie!