Any modern austere and strict Christian denomination in US?

In My Humble Opinion
1

From what I have read, it seems that Christians used to be a lot more theologically conservative and socially austere than now. Now, it’s hard to tell Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, etc., apart. Furthermore, it’s hard to tell that their current theology had anything to do with Calvin, Luther, and so on. As liberal as the United Church of Christ is, it’s hard for me to believe that the Congregationalists merged with them.

Is there any mainstream austere and strict denominations still in the US, those that believe in an austere or almost ascetic way of life (denial of pleasures, denial and rejection of the world, etc.) as well as early Reformation theology (Luther, Calvin) that’s still true to its roots and hasn’t changed with the times as much? I am excluding Missouri-Synod Lutheranism and Anabaptist Christianity from the get-go: both are mainstream and about whom I am aware: I would like to know of any others that may be there but may be out of my view. Even better, is there anyone on this board who lives and believes in such a life/view?

WRS

2

I went to school with some strict Calvinists. They were very very Reformed Presbyterian. Their theology is pretty distinctive and TULIP-based (acronym for the five theological points of Calvinism regarding total depravity of creation, the limited atonement of Jesus etc.).

My best friend’s husband was brought up Free Brethren. They don’t have any liturgy, require modest dress, women aren’t aloud to preach and must cover their heads during worship: they’re quite distinctive in their practice as well.

3

I grew up Presbyterian Church in America (not the larger more liberal PCUS). We actually had did catechism (the shorter thank god) from the Westminster Confession of Faith. We also regurally discussed Calvin and the five points (not like those four point spliters) of the docrine of the faith. I’m in my early 20’s so its pretty current. I’m hundred percent sure the theology is still being tought the same, although the youngens probably don’t have to remember exactly how to respond to “what is the chief end of man” and other catachism responces. The Orthodox Presbyterian Church is pretty much the same as the PCA only they split from the PCUS either earlier or latter.

4

I assume you also are excluding the Amish and Mennonite as well as Quakers, Primitive (Hardshell) Baptists and some of the more austere Southern Baptists. How about the Mormon Church and some Assembly of God churches I’ve seen in operation. Then there’s the Kingdom Hall fellowship of Jehovahs Witnesses. I don’t know much about 'em but the folks I know seem pretty intense about it.
Some of my kinfolk are devout Catholics and they are some diehard bible thumpers and not too flashy either.

I went to a Primitive Baptist church for years and was baptised in an old time Southern Baptist Church, you know hellfire and brimstone. The kind that scares you to God. You need to fear God…or else you’re gonna burn forever.
Men sit on one side of the church and the women sit on the other. No music played in church only singing. Some damned old songs too. No collection plates no pay for the preacher. Members of the church meet and put the money to pay the bills. What few there were. The old church was just a single frame building. All wood, no electricity, an outhouse…we finally built some restrooms out back. I used to keep the cemetery up myself.
There was a couple of preachers (elders) the eldest of the two was basically training the younger. They’d get up after the first hour which was just the church members singing. The next hour…or two…would be the two preachers. One would get up and go into his first sermon. After twenty or thirty minutes of some serious down home lecturing of the Good Book, he’d sit and let the younger have a go at it. He’d give it hell for a half hour or so and they might call it done and then again they might not.
Afterwards we’d all break out the picnic baskets and have dinner together. Church was held once a month at our church. Next month it’d be at the neighboring community’s church and so on until it came back around to us. We’d all go to one another’s Sunday meetings and enjoy the fellowship of our neighbors.
The main belief is one of a literal translation of the the bible and total submission to God’s will. freewill is an illusion and that everything is predestined in the sense that HE knows what your choice will be before it is made. Therefore, you really don’t have a choice. All you need is too trust in God and live your life according to the laws of God.
Anyway…that’s a hardshell Baptist for ya. Tell ya the truth…it’s not a bad way to go IMHO. Whether you believe all of it or not. But most of the old churches like that are dying out. At least I got a taste of it. :slight_smile:
You’d have to witness a real sermon to get a good sense of what is meant when they say “the spirit is in the house today”. These guys can get a chant in their voice and will get a rythym going that is very impressive if you ever see the real thing. It’s cool.

5

I missed your first point about rejection of the world and astetic life. The PCA doesn’t do that at all then except maybe in a theoretical sense that most fundamentalist denominations preach. In reality they seemed to be a lot less up tight then the southern baptist.

6

There are a great number of fundamentalist Pentacostal types here, particularly in the more rural parts of the state - you can always tell them because the girls don’t cut their hair, and long hair that’s never trimmed always gets more ragged looking and much longer in the back of the head than elsewhere. They don’t hold with instrumental music (some of them, at least), store bought clothing, gym class at school (many homeschool, of course), non-religious art, etc. These people even sew their own underwear. The girl I knew in middle school lived in a sort of family compound that farmed and did other handiwork and grew a lot of their own food in vegetable gardens and such. (No qualms about rooking the school system to get in town from the rural schools she was no doubt zoned for, of course, but that’s a competitive sport here.) Her grandfather seemed to be sort of the community patriarch who preached at church and such (I don’t know if he was ordained in any particular church). That might be the closest to the austere Calvinists of yore that you’re talking about.

The interesting thing is that most of the people of this sort that I’ve met or heard of do this “compound” thing - they don’t go to a big church or live in a good sized community like an Amish or Mennonite person might do (we also have some largeish Mennonite communities in the upstate, FYI). It would seem to me difficult to keep that sort of thing going when your kids go to public school. But obviously for that reason there’s no one set of rules - I’m sure some of them buy underwear, for example. The no-pants-or-hair-cutting-on-girls seems to be pretty constant, though.

7

There are various groups that ascribe to “Christian Holiness” or “Bible Holiness” that are quite conservative. One prominent such denomination is the Nazarene Church. But even within the Holiness movement, that church is considered too liberal by some! Here’s some more info about the movement. I have many relatives that belong to such churches (including many pastors and in leadership positions).

There were a lot of divisions among groups that arose in the 1940’s, so some reject TV and such but not radio. Ditto on some clothing rules. Sort of like the Amish but stuck in a pre-War over-idealization mindset.

8

But is no instrumental hymns really a part of hardcore fundamentalism? After all, the Eastern Orthodox churches do not allow instrumental music-all a capella, and they’re not fundamentalist, literalists, etc.

9

Is it a part of hardcore fundamentalism? I’d say usually, yes. Is it restricted to h/f? No of course not. I’m sure there are plenty of faiths that musical instruments aren’t a part of the service. But in most hardcore churches I’ve been to it’s pretty absolute. But that is only a small thing really. Because often the members would get together and break out their instruments at a family reunion or at the fall fair. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with the music or the instruments. It’s just not appropriate in church. It is kinda like the slippery slope concept.

Services today in most “modern” churches put on a show…and I mean a Goddamned show. Huge choirs and more instruments than the philharmonic…the actual service/sermon is just one big damned commercial. The last big regular Baptist church I attended “religiously” put me off on 'em for good I’m afraid. They actually passed the collection plate three different times in an hour service. Between the music and dancing and chorusing and money grubbing and the preacher running ads for whatever that else was going on… I timed it. His sermon lasted less than ten minutes. I don’t go, or didn’t go to see some damned circus.

and forget about any substance to whatever they do say. It’s a community gathering on a big scale and they’re gonna tell ya whatever the majority of folks want to hear in order to keep 'em coming. I went to an Assembly of God in Pasadena TX. w/ family members a few times. My lord what a put on staged event. There was at least 5 or 6 preachers there. The show lasted two or three hours. The worst display I’ve ever witnessed. I mean they had it all…there was folks getting healed left and right…there were several folks who broke out speaking in tongues and droves of people rolling in the aisles and running down to be saved by the team of holy men.
Not to mention the hundreds of checks and stacks of cash the congregation was dropping in the collection plate. Many of the checks were for THOUSANDS of dollars. I saw a LOT of hundred dollar bills too.
No that’s too much crap for me.
The Primitive Baptists keep it real simple. :slight_smile:

10

I mentioned it specifically because I assume it comes from the heritage of Protestant austerity in this case, like the Scottish Presbyterians of old (who, IIRC, had to eventually allow instruments in because the hymns got worse and worse and slower and slower. :slight_smile: ) While there are certainly other non-instrumental traditions (Orthodox Judaism, correct?) I think the origins of this restriction for these particular groups is Protestant.

11

The Wikipedia article on Calvinism. Maybe this will help us define the terms and give some foundation to our discussion.

Here’s what TULIP means:[ul][li]Total Depravity: People in their natural, unregenerate state do not have the ability to turn to God. Rather it is the grace and will of God through the Spirit that causes men who are dead in sin to be reborn through the Word.[/li][li]Unconditional Election: Election means “choice”. God’s choice from eternity, of who he will bring to himself, is not based on foreseen virtue, merit or faith in the persons he chooses but rather, is unconditionally grounded in his own mercy.[/li][li]Limited Atonement: Also called “particular redemption” or “definite atonement” meaning that, Christ’s death actually takes away the penalty of sins committed by those upon whom God has chosen to have mercy. (As opposed to Christ’s death making redemption merely a possibility that we can perform). It is “limited” then, to taking away the sins of the elect.[/li][li]Irresistible Grace: The saving grace of God is not resistible. Those who obtain salvation do so because of the relentlessness of God’s mercy. Men yield to grace, not finally because God found their consciences more tender or their faith more tenacious than other men. Rather, willingness and ability to do God’s will, are evidence of God’s faithfulness to save men from the power and the penalty of sin.[/li]Perseverance of the Saints: Also called the “Preservation of the Saints”. Those whom God has called into communion with Himself through Christ, will continue in faith and will increase in faith and other gifts, until the end. Those who apparently fall away, either never had true faith to begin with, or else will return.[/ul]How many churches still believe in all five of those points?

12

I read this as “…folks getting head…”.

13

There are still 5 point Calvinists around. I can say with absolute surety that there is a very TULIP-believing church in Ottawa, anyway. The Presbyterian Calvinists, especially the strict 5-point ones, are usually called Reformed Presbyterians.

14

Thanks for the answers so far, y’all!

I know from experience that Latter-day Saints are austere and strict, but there’s a large part of the Church that’s inactive.

What impresses on my mind is the fact that many congregations - regardless of whether this applies to the denomination or not - are moving away from “worship the Lord and learn” to “worship the Lord and be entertained.” I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I am sure most of the Churches mentioned herein, are no afraid to wax long on admonishing its membership on obeying and being faithful to the rules, standards, and requirements of the faith. This may be anything from witnessing to observing dietary, financial, or moral codes. Many of the more modern congregations I have attended seem to be more general in their messages, something that would appeal to the greatest number of people rather than the old time’s preaching and exhortation and admonishment. It makes sense, too. These days people are less motivated to donate to a religious cause whereas, it would seem, before it was considered a given. Churches with unpaid clergy, such as the Primitive Baptists mentioned and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from my experience, are more able to be strict in their requirements and standards.

Nevertheless, I think that this trend, although diminishing, will continue to endure. Just as people want to find a congregation where worship is uplifting and the message instructive, others will find a congregation that claims to be strict, faithful, unswerving, and constant, especially when materialism and relativism increases in prominence.

I had no idea that Prebyterians used to be so strict. Then again, I have been to only one Prebyterian service (probably PCUS).

Of course, the two main wings of modern Christianity, Catholicism and Orthodoxy, cannot be discounted, as others have mentioned before. Both cherish Tradition, which means being faithful to what has been handed down from before without change. How successful they are in doing so varies on what resources are available to them (especially in terms of size of congregation, activity of members, how supportive members are of the Tradition).

I would like to hear more, especially about Calvinists. My understanding of them is probably flawed. I had read about TULIP before. But the impression that I attained was that Calvinism was austere, believed in total predestination (everything that happens has been willed to happen by God, including the choosing of the elect), and the remoteness of God vis-a-vis humanity and its mentality (thus, we cannot judge God or His attributes: God’s justice is absolute justice, even if may not seem that way to us). My understanding also is that although more prevalent (evidently amongst Reformed and Prebysterian/Reformed Presbyterian Churches), their influence has diminished considerably now. (Although perhaps the work ethic has gotten stronger?)

WRS - Rambling, that’s all. But I love what’s been said so far!