Equipoise writes:
> The Dope is responsible for at least one other such thing, that Colin
> Ferrell “raped” a girl.
Cite? I can’t find any evidence that there is any such rumor floating around. Furthermore, there are no SDMB threads in the past six years which match your description, so how could such a rumor have started in the way that you describe, unless it was more than six years ago?
I can’t speak for the fact that it became an urban legend (it didn’t.) But, a couple of years ago there was a stupid thread started by Cartooniverse accusing Farell of raping an underage costar.
Why hasn’t Colin Farell been charged with Rape?
Hate to burst all your bubbles, but the fact is the Beatles DID NOT write ANY of their songs.
They did, however, land on the Moon in 1969.
Well, at least I know why I couldn’t find that thread. “Farrell” was misspelled in the title as “Farell”, although it’s correctly spelled in a couple of other places in the thread. Equipoise misspelled it as “Ferrell” in his post, and that was what I searched on. Now that I know the correct spelling, I still can’t find any evidence that there was ever a rumor on the Internet that Colin Farrell was a rapist, no matter what spelling I use.
I haven’t read the Lennon interview. But in any case, this isn’t true. The two rarely collaborated on writing a song in their later music. The only other examples of this I can think of are A Day In the Life and I’ve Got a Feeling, and the theory doesn’t really work on these two. And even in the case of We Can Work it Out, I don’t think the McCartney part is particularly suger coated with lines as “Do I have to keep on talking till I can’t go on?” and “There’s a chance that we might fall apart before too long.”
Nitpick: There was also “Dizzy Miss Lizzy” and “Act Naturally” on Help.
Mr Jp- you’re right. Part of the problem is that prior to “Sgt. Pepper,” Capitol Records tended to chop up Beatles’ albums and package them quite differently from the British versions. “Beatles For Sale” was never sold in the US until the CD era began. The songs on it were released as “The Beatles '65” and “The Beatles VI.” I had thought “Beatles For Sale” came after “Help.” Apparently, I had it backwards.
As for other theories broached…
I’m not saying George wasn’t an exceptionally valuable person. I think he was an ideal man to guide the Beatles as they started moving beyond simple rock and roll and started experimenting. But while Martin was a great arranger, he was never much of a composer.
Bear in mind also, Paul said at one point that John “could be a maneuvering swine” who claimed credit for songs he hadn’t written.
IMO the first quote is better suited to your argument than the second. “a chance,” “might” etc. dilutes the message.
At any rate I found the book. I misspoke: it was the Playboy interview, with David Sheff. On pages 177-178:
*Lennon: In “We Can Work it Out,” Paul did the first half, I did the middle eight. But you’ve got Paul writing, “We can work it out/we can work it out”—real optimistic, y’know, and me, impatient: “Life is very short and there’s no time/For fussing and fighting, my friend…”
Playboy: Paul tells the story and John philosophizes.
Lennon: Sure. Well, I was always like that, you know.*
Actually, he’s probably dead:
Whether your friend likes their music or likes them as a band is subjective but that the Beatles were a good band is quantifiable for all practical purposes.
No need for the qualifiers. You can say it with confidence: The Beatles were the most influential band.
Four geniuses?
Leonard Bernstein, in one of his Young People’s Concerts, this one in the fall of 1964, used *And I Love Her * (Lennon-McCartney) to illustrate a point in his lecture “What is Sonata Form?” He played parts of it on the piano while singing.
I also remember him (but can’t find a cite) analyzing Love Me Do, the Beatles’ first single, probably around the same time.
Famous songwriters and musicians are magnets for plagiarism accusers. Johnny Cash, Billy Joel, Coldplay… Even George Harrison was sued for “My Sweet Lord” sounding a lot like “He’s So Fine.” And in that case, the lyrics weren’t even in contention.
Can you imagine a bigger target for shakedown artists than the Beatles? Even if the “real” author of their songs were complicit in the sham, what would keep him quiet and compliant after the band broke up? Or after the catalog were sold to Michael Jackson?
There’s no Grassy Knoll here. Anyone claiming otherwise should at least name a possible “real author.”
Teachers routinely use the internet to check out plagiarism by their students. Would anybody like to cite a suspicious Beatles song and check it against other, earlier songs archived online?
Mark David Chapman thought John Lennon was a fraud.
That was really … clever. Three little cultural digs in one …
I’m still stumbling over the phrase, “pro-Beatle bias”. WTF?
No one says anyone has to love the Beatles or pay homage to them or even listen to them. But it is undeniable that they were a massive influence on rock music and pop culture. I dunno 'bout 4 genuises, but 1+1+1+1=something like 15, instead of 4.
The real tragedy is that Lennon and now Harrison are gone, so we will never know what they would have done with their “twilight” years. Sadly, we know all too well what McCartney and Starr have done.
I agree that John was the edgier one–he kept Paul from overdosing all of us on sugar and tacky shit (Maxwell Silverhammer? come on), but he had his blind spots and Paul had his bull’s eyes. Actually, we’re spoiled for choice when it comes to the Beatles. I can’t think of any other band (maybe the Stones) where one can listen to such a variety of music. That we cavil at some of it reveals our sense of entitlement, IMO.
Your friend is an ass and I suspect he knows it re this issue. He’s yanking your chain. It’s up to you to not let him.
Back in the 90s, Rolling Stone did a chart of all the major Rock bands, with lines from earlier bands that had influenced them and lines to subsequent bands that had been influenced by them. Lots of lines went into the Beatles, but oddly, none came out of them. (Wings and Badfinger were not mentioned.)
While the Beatles undoubtedly made every teenager in the western world think “I could do that!”, not many major bands cite the Beatles as an influence. (The Stones, Clapton and Fleetwood Mac, who made undeniable careers playing in Lennon and McCartney’s backyards, were more apt to cite Robert Johnson and Blind Willie McTell than their own famous countrymen.) There’s more snob appeal in citing Iggy and the Stooges or Black Sabbath as inspirations than the Liverpool moptops.
Oddly enough, there ARE a lot of acclaimed musical artists who DID share or claim credit for music they didn’t write. It just happens the Beatles aren’t among them.
Benny Goodman received composing credit on many of the songs he recorded, but when reporter Sidney Zion asked him how many of those songs he’d actually help write, Goodman chuckled, “Oh, maybe a few.” Composers knew that they’d collect a lot of royalties if Benny Goodman recorded their songs- and sometimes, Benny would use that leverage to demand a share of composing credits. Composers figured, “Half the royalties to a big hit by Benny Goodman is worth a lot more than all the royalties to a song nobody ever hears.”
In the same way, Elvis Presley got a few songwriting credits that he didn’t deserve. Heck, even Johnny Carson demanded credit for co-writing the “Tonight” theme with Paul Anka, though Carson never wrote a song in his life.
Soapbox Monkey, try showing your hard-headed friend the misaligned shadows in the Sgt Pepper’s video. And point out how the day scenes have no stars in the sky.
John and Paul? – possibly, although Paul hasn’t produced a whole hell of a lot at a genius level since the breakup.
George, no. He wrote one great song in my opinion, the only great song on the White Album oddly enough, Savoy Truffle. The rest of his output was well-crafted pop songs but no more. The saying comes to mind, “The exception proves the rule; and the bigger the exception the better the rule.” George was productive and a worthy Beatle but no genius.
The word genius will never occur in a conversation about Ringo Starr.
That’s not applicable here.
In any case, your friend is obviously just randomly choosing some “given” to practice his arguing skills on. This kind of behavior should begin to decrease at around his 17th birthday, or when he begins to get laid.