Because without the lab there is no way to make drugs. There’s nothing intrinsic about a mosque that makes it necessary to train in one.
And…the reason we’re taking Christianity’s viewpoint as objective fact on this subject?
Maybe it’s because I’m looking at the whole thing from an outsider’s perspective (not being attached to either Christianity or Islam (or Judaism or Hinduism or whatever, either)), but it seems to me that simple common sense dictates that if the “God” of the Abrahamic religions looks, acts and sounds like the same god, it IS the same god. Just because Christianity has a thorn up its butt about Jesus being a Person of God doesn’t mean that anyone else is particularly obligated to humor that.
But you’re still not getting it. Islam recognizes a whole line of prophets, most of whom would be familiar to Jews and Christians. This is part of the reason why your contention that Allah and God are different gods is incorrect. Muslims and Christians disagree to some extent on the nature of God, but then again, Republicans and Democrats disagree even more about the nature of Barack Obama.
Speaking of statistical answers, it would be interesting to see you quantify “certain amount” into anything resembling a significant number.
After any violent event, most news agencies will send out reporters and camera holders to get quotations from anyone who might be involved with any group that might have a tangential relationship tothe event. Where is the evidence that there are more people worrying about anti-Muslim backlash than general racism or drinking at sports events or second hand smoke?
I’m equating one of the 5 pillars if Islam to a common denominator that draws worldwide support in the form of money and religious dogma. 9/11 was a cross section of Middle Eastern people. The most recent attack was a Nigerian who was connected via a mosque in the UK to terrorist camps in Yemen. It is organized to the point of funneling money on a large scale and above individual mosques. While the religion looks flat on paper it takes a higher level of organization to create a worldwide network of training camps. It is a strawman argument to say this doesn’t exist because there isn’t a single grand poo-bah of Islam driving the train.
I thought 15 of the 19 attackers (and Osama Bin Laden) were from Saudi Arabia. That doesn’t sound like much of a cross-section. Anyway I think the two of you are talking at cross purposes. I think it’s beyond dispute that there are organizations that funnel money from terrorist supporters to terrorists, but that applies to fundamenalist terrorists, not to all Muslims. You also suggested there was a tight knit orthodox heirachy within Islam (“While there is a flatter structure to the hierarchy they all still meet for lunch once a year.”) and you weren’t on very solid ground there.
I’m suggesting that the religion at large breeds terrorists. It’s not in spite of the flat hierarchy of individual mosques but because of it. Call it the Fred Phelps syndrome but it exists.
There’s over a billion Muslims. If Islam was all that prone to producing terrorists you’d have tens of millions of Islamic terrorists at the least. Not just a few here and there. And if that’s your standard for a religion being prone to breeding terrorists, then Christianity also qualifies.
Point of information: when Tamerlane chooses to spend time posting in a thread, the correct response is generally to thank him for sharing his wealth of knowledge.
Actually Allah is general term for a deity, and also a term for a specific for a deity. It’s comparable to the Levantine “El” which is “just another word for God” but also refers to one particular deity in particular. Whether or not he’s “the same God” is debatable, although maybe if Arabs had been more prominent in antiquity they’re would have been temples to El-Cronus-Allah? 
Also… the “lineage” of these traditions are not as cut and dry and you make them out to be (then again you make everything out to be cut and dry :p) When you say Yahweh do you mean in the sense of the original Yahweh that came out of Midian, or the Levantine “El” whom he eventually got syncretized with? From what I understand, there is little comparison between the original Yahweh and Allah, but there is comparison between the original El and Allah. However the modern Allah is a bit different due to syncretism of the later Yahweh with Allah to make him.
The question is, at what point does this idea become another God? It doesn’t matter whether anybody believes any of these deities ever existed or not, it’s kinda hazy.
There are over a billion Christians. What’s your point?
I have a very hard time believing you’re serious.
As it is, I put this post in General Questions because I wanted a statistical response. I concede, my motives in asking aren’t purely academic. Rather, I believe that concerns about anti-Muslim backlash are exaggerated and largely wrong-headed. I want to know if my hunch is accurate, or if I’m waaay off and there really HAS been a huge leap in unprovoked violence against Muslims in the US.
Almost nobody has attempted to give a statistical response, and hence it’s moved to GD. I have absolutely no interest in the twists and turns this thread has taken, and I won’t be reading it any further.
That there’s nothing especially Islamic about terrorism. They didn’t invent it, nor are they the only ones who practice it.
Now see, that there is a perfectly reasonable comment.
I entirely agree that the diffusely structured and non-hierarchical nature of Islam does in fact seem to make it easier for radicalism to flourish on the fringe. It’s hardly difficult in other faiths either ( I have some minor family history with some seriously whackadoo schismatic Catholics ), but the ability of any hillbilly mullah to spout off as a claimed authority means that getting someone to grant you religious justification for whatever can be remarkably easy.
But that isn’t exactly what you were saying before ;).
Well, as for *my *part of we, I’m taking Christianity’s viewpoint as an objective fact because it is an objective fact. How come *your *part of *we *is doing it?
Listen, you need to snap out of it and read my posts. You’re going all over the place… I’m saying that there is a valid reason for somebody to question as to whether somebody uses the word god/God, and it means the same as another’s use of god/God. I’ll try and bring you back down to earth with this analogy.
If Yahweh calls himself the supreme ruler of the universe, and if Satan calls himself the supreme ruler of the universe, does that make Satan Yahweh? If you say yes, do you have the correct understanding of facts to make that judgement? Is Satan telling the truth? If you say no, you have to explain why: Yahweh is the supreme ruler of the universe, and Satanists say that Satan is the supreme ruler of the universe, and it is a Yahwist religion, so why isn’t he? Obviously, there is a misunderstanding.
That’s what my posts have been about, and I think if you read them without your predetermined squint on the matter, you will see as much.
Best wishes,
hh
Another strawman that ignores reality. Nobody said they invented it or are that the only ones who practice it. There is however, something especially Islamic about the rash of Muslim terrorist attacks of recent years.
Well, between begging the question and establishing a straw man argument of a “certain amount” of stature, I can see why you are uninterested in following the discussion as it continues in GD.
As it happens, I think that an answer to my question is not incompatible with your question. The question “Has there been a measurable anti-Muslim backlash following various terrorist incidents?” is certainly a legitimate one. However, the question, “Has there been widespread expression of a fear of anti-Muslim backlash?” would seem to be an equally valid question, particularly when you set the original thread on a course for Great Debates by asserting the affirmative to the latter as the premise for asking the former.
If you want a General Question answered, you might consider asking it as a neutral question rather than as a debate point.
I can recall a couple of interviews with various neighborhood leaders from Dearborn, MI about harrassment following the WTC/Pentagon attacks, and CAIR routinely issues comments on the topic–much as B’nai B’rith and the US Council of Catholic Bishops issue statements when Jewish or Catholic folks are caught up in violent events–but I have no serious recollection of significant numbers of politicians or newspeople expressing fears about anti-Muslim backlash following every event,
You’re not paying attention. I am, for all practical purposes, as conversant as is needed in re the differences and similarities of the two religions. I said I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t know, and I don’t make a contention in this thread as to whether or not Allah is a legitimate name for Yahweh, and if you had read my posts you would have known this. People started going on about the two deities being the same, without room for dissent, and that is incorrect in this context.
Similarities do not make congruencies. Nor equalities. Equalities make equalities, and congruencies make same.
It’s simple mathematical principles: If A is a subset of B, B is not necessarily a subset of A. Carry this to it’s logical conclusion in re whether or not Yahweh can be called Allah, and I say let’s not be too hasty in calling them the same. That is my point, in toto, in this thread.
hh
Yes. “Specifically”, it isn’t done by Christians so we can blame it on the religion without offending most Americans. When Christians blow things and people up for God, suddenly it’s not the fault of the religion in general anymore but just a tiny sect or a few individuals.
If a bunch of Christians had piloted those planes into the Towers on 9-11, there’s no way you would have seen the kind of general willingness you see to blame the whole religion for it, the way people are willing to blame Islam.
Bull fucking shit. Fred Phelps is one funeral away from getting torn limb from limb just for running his mouth. The day he tries anything stupid is the day he meets Jesus without a reservation.
The few modern terrorist events in the US that are linked to a Christian religion revolve around abortion doctors and those I can count on one hand. It’s borderline to even call those terrorist acts because they were directed at specific individuals (yes you can make the case that they are designed to frighten off people in the same profession).
This thread is about potential backlash against Muslims because of terrorist acts committed by them and in the name of Islam. You can argue that it is not a function of the religion until the cows come home and it won’t change the reality that there are groups of Muslims dedicated to blowing infidels to hell with random terrorist attacks. Christians are more than willing to let you to get there on your own dime.