Watching the stream of the post-panel round table on Facebook.
Wondering if anyone else is watching this.
America should fear any religious fanaticism.
If the likes of Sarah Palin ever wins the Presidency, you haven’t seen anything yet.
I think the woman she had on who was a refugee from Iran made a good point. There’s not one monolithic Islam. (Reza Aslan said this too.)
I can fear a “political Islam” that treats religious dogma as conferring privilege, but I would fear a “political Christianity” as well. Considering what German Christians did to each other before the peace of Westfalen, & Yugoslav Christians did to each other in my lifetime, I think Christianity may be scarier. For that matter a dogmatic “political atheism” could be bad.
The USSR and China are proof of that.
When exactly did your lifetime begin? From 1945 to 1997 Yugoslavia was ruled by two atheist dictators, Josip Broz Tito and Slobidan Milosevic, with a brief intermission in the 80’s. Since the establishment of Democracy in 1998 I’m not aware of any mass violence among Christians or anyone else.
As for whether we should fear Islam, not particularly, I’d say. In the past 60 years the United States has killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims while invading their countries. I’m not aware that they’ve ever launched an invasion in return. There was a terrorist attack on Sept. 11, 2001, but that was motivated directly by America’s policies in the Middle East. If we simply withdrew all our troops from the Middle East, it’s likely that most Arabs would forget our existence pretty quick. Some Europeans may have more cause for concern about Muslim violence, but that’s another thread.
When you carefully choose your dates, (to say nothing of getting them wrong–1998?), you can make a lot of odd assertions.
Throughout the 1990s, the former Yugoslavia was wracked by horrible violence that broke down on ethnic lines, but included a lot of culturo-religious feeling, with Catholics and Orthodox in violent confrontations, and Orthodox murdering Muslims and (nominal) atheists. (A lot of the “atheists” were Muslim.)
To blame that violence on the reputed atheism of the heads of government while ignoring the beliefs of the actual perpetrators of the various feuds and massacres is rather silly.
I live in Dearborn. i would have to hide in my house and stay away from my neighbors. We have lots of mosques in Dearborn. Many women walk around in Burkhas. They wear them in parks when they kick soccer balls around. i see them as just people.
In Michigan we have the religious communities that spawned McVeigh and the Oklahoma bombers. I would be more worried taking a wrong turn and driving into their compounds. I don’t fear white people though. I know those nuts are not representative of all white people, maybe just tea baggers.
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It’s only silly if your entire point of posting is to lie about religion and slur atheists.
Do not make this discussion personal and do recall that accusations of lying are in violation of the rules of this forum.
[ /Modding ]
You don’t know anything about the Yugoslav wars? Ethnic cleansing? Genocide? Concentration camps? Siege of Sarajevo? Kosovo War?
Eastern Orthodox Serbs against everyone else who were Muslim or Catholics.
Bosnia was especially bad because Milosevic was able to convince people with continuous propaganda that Muslim terrorists were coming to get them. People who lived together during Tito suddenly turned on their neighbors. The war there was essentially Serbian Eastern Orthodox against Bosnian Muslims with the Serb army, paramilitaries and local police targeting Muslim civilians.
These things would not have occurred without the ethnic/religious component.
I would like a cite that Timothy McVeigh (an avowed agnostic) is linked to religious communities in Michigan. And while you’re searching for that I’ll just point out that that Dearborn is in the Detroit Airport flight path so the Christmas present from Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab would have landed in your living room. I’m sure it burns his ass that he missed you but I doubt you had enough eggnog for 290 people so it worked out in the end.
And finally, I don’t understand why you fear attacks from people who want to suck your balls.
Okay that surprised me.
Timothy McVeigh really was an agnostic…
He could easily have been lying about being agnostic; he was suspected of association with the Christian Identity movement and I understand they tell their followers to pretend to be “lone wolves” when committing violence to keep too much heat from coming down on them.
As far as the subject of the thread goes, certainly America should fear Islam, but it should fear Christianity even more because it is more powerful here. Both are dangerous for the same reasons, but as a practical matter Americans are a lot more likely to get hurt or harassed at the hands of a fanatic Christian than a fanatic Muslim simply due to sheer numbers and the fact that the Christians are the ones in power.
That’s not a cite. It doesn’t even qualify as conjecture. McVeigh specifically said he was agnostic.
Actually, his attorney wrote a book suggesting just the opposite (Others Unknown). He was suspected of associating with the Islamic terror group Abu-Sayef in the Philippines.
As a practical matter we aren’t terrorized by a country filled with a majority of Christians.
I didn’t say it was a cite, I was commenting on the agnosticism claim. And why are you taking the word of a terrorist?
:rolleyes: Yeah, right. And Osama bin Laden was secretly working for the Jews, right?
Tell that to some gay guy who’s been beaten to death for Jesus.
Yes, I’m taking the word of a terrorist about being agnostic and not your opinion.
Write a book so we can all look forward to at least one cite from you. I’m sure you know more about what happened than McVeigh’s attorney because of … (insert cite here).
Cite where this is a Christian problem because I can show you Muslim countries that execute gay men. Heck, I can cite the state execution of gay teenagers.
Fear anybody whose ideology depends on magical thinking.
^This. While I wouldn’t say (from my, privileged American perspective, with a few months spent in the region immediately after the war in 1996) this to be a “religious war,” this was a conflict in which ethnic differences were exaggerated for political gains, and religious difference were one component of this. I lived in a town (Pakrac) that had a high rate of intermarriages between Serbs and Croats. Once the hostilities started, there was an odd rumor that spread through town–that all the ethnic Serbs were told to leave the town (via telephone), and then all the leftover Croats who were around were shelled. How this worked out in intermarriages, I have no fucking clue, but this is what the common wisdom was when I lived there.
It’s a Christian problem HERE. I don’t particularly like the Muslim countries that are executing gay men and teenagers, either, but I don’t have to deal with them. I have to deal with ostensible Christians who, in their more socially acceptable form, fight to take away or keep away my right to live as who I am, and in their more vulgar form, want to follow me out of a gay bar, drag me into an alley, and beat me until I’m dead.
Statistically, the government of Iran is a far smaller danger to me, as an American, than the fundamentalist down the street.
Cite this is a Christian problem.