I’ve tried a few times to make a sourdough starter, and mostly gotten stuff I wouldn’t trust eating. But darn it, I love sourdough bread. So I tried again, this time using commercial yeast. So, I got a starter going, and I got a recipe–the recipe involved letting a sponge sit for 24-48 hours, which I did. This morning I finally got to the baking and eating stage.
It was a bit odd–not very sourdoughy tasting, but it did taste somewhat alcoholic. Yeah, I know, duh, you let yeast sit that long, what do you think you’re going to get. But this is the first time I’ve ever had what could pass for Vodka Bread. I mean, it’s good bread, and I know a starter made with commercial yeast isn’t going to taste the same as a wild culture, but did I do something wrong? Will the starter improve with age?
Oh, and I had a wild thought while I was mixing it up–what would happen if I dumped a carton of Dannon into it? Would I get acidophilus in my starter, or would it just be overwhelmed by the yeast that’s already there?
Anyway, any sourdough advice or opinions would be most welcome.
It’s been years, but the problem may be the ambient temperature.
The “mother” should taste better as it ages, but your starter should never taste alcoholic. You may want to refrigerate the starter for a longer portion of the aging process.
white-tigress, sourdough bread tastes like…like sourdough bread. Sorry, I’m not really good with describing flavors. It has a sort of tang to it, but otherwise it’s like regular bread. It tastes really good.
grendel72, thanks, I’ll try that. Maybe it was too hot in the kitchen, then? I’ll keep feeding the starter (and making bread with it) and see if it doesn’t improve.
local legend has it that sourdough cannot be made outside the immediate bay area - supposedly, various bakeries have tried to set up operation, using a chunk of the home plant’s culture, and - nada
I do sourdough all the time. There is quite a bit of info available over the 'net if you go Google for “making sourdough”, but here are some points to ponder:
The wild-yeast beasties do create alcohol as a waste product - that is why even if you’re not using your culture that day, you still have to take out half the volume and replace with water and flour. Stir the old mother first, to distribute the alcohol evenly - you want to keep some in there, as alcohol is what gives that tang to the sour.
You have to watch what water you use to feed it - cholorinated water - e.g. out of your tap will wipe out your poor wild yeast. If your local water department uses chloramine to decontaminate, even boiling the water first won’t get rid of the chemicals. You’ll have to use those chemical-treating pills aquarium stores sell, or buy water that is reversed osmosis and boil it. If your local water department only uses straight chlorine, boiling the water for ten minutes, then dipping from only the top half of the container works well. Myself, since yeast-beasties LOVE to eat starch, I just save my 1) pasta water, 2) rice water, or really good 3) potato boiling water. Do not use the leftover water if you put salt or oil in it, however.
Temperature is important, but a fridge is too cold. Usually a fridge runs about 40 F. Perfect sourdough wild yeast loves a temperature of 68-72 F best of all. Up to about 76 F I can still grow a decently sour culture. Abover 76 F sitting temperature, the normal bread yeast wins, eats the less-hardy-at-this-warm wild yeasts, and you get sweet, NOT-sourdough bread.
Use of the sponge - you should observe your mixture after feeding it, starting about three hours after and then about every hour past that. Measure the layer of foaming bubbles - how deep it is (really helps to use a glass jar for this part). At the point after you’ve fed it, that the batch reaches “maximum foam head” is the perfect time to snatch a bit out, make bread, and feed the remainder and set it back for the next day. You can use it any old time, but your sourdough won’t raise nearly as well as if you catch it on the ‘crest of the wave’ of the population growth of wild yeasties.
It takes about 14-21 days of growth at the right temperature for the wild culture of yeasts to develop the true sourdough tanginess. At this point, do yourself a favor. Get some wax paper, and spread a bit on it real thin to dry. Then crumble up the resulting yeast-paper, and keep it in an air-tight container in the freezer. This way, if you accidentally kill, forget to feed, someone throws out your starter, you don’t have to go through that initial build it up to sour goodness routine. You can just make the flour and water, crush up some of your yeast-paper, and your yeast-beasties will come out of hibernation and taste just as good as before.
That bit about sourdough only working right in SF Bay is a load of you-know-what. The Alaskan gold-rushers got the name “sourdoughs” from making it there. Texan pioneers made sourdough. The only tough thing with sourdough is keeping the regular bread yeast from taking over - which is almost always a function of too high a growing temperature or more-often-than-every-24 hours feeding. I actually find keeping sourdough going EASIER than baking ‘normal’ bread… I never have to go “oops, out of yeast!” and run back the store.
Oh, and if you use whole wheat, instead of white flour (especially BROMATED white flour, which tends to also kill wild yeast!), like those settlers and gold-rushers did, you get a whole LOT stronger sourdough bread. I highly recommend it; makes the sort of bread one can melt cheese on top of and eat in slices.
Yes. If you use some of it at least two or three times a week and replenish it with flour and water, letting it ferment 24 hours, it will greatly improve after a few weeks. I believe this is because it takes this long for the wild yeasts and bacteria to get settled in and displace the commercial yeast. I have never had any luck trying to make starter without first starting with commercial yeast, but your mileage may vary. I add some unseasoned mashed potato (no milk) every once in a while for extra nutrients. It seems to like it.
You can make very good sourdough starter almost anywhere in the world, but genuine San Francisco sourdough starter is special. You can order a starter from SF by mail, but it difficult to maintain outside the Bay area for more than a few weeks at a time. The particular yeasts and bacteia that make it special are quickly overwhelmed by whatever wild yeasts and bacteria live in your area. Two of the most important organisms for true SF sourdough are the yeast Saccharomyces exiguus and the bacterium Lactobacillus sanfrancisco.
At least as I understand it, the starter is the culture you keep and feed from week to week. The sponge (which not all recipes call for) is a cup or so of the starter plus some water and sugar and flour that you let sit in the mixing bowl for a day or two before you add more flour and salt and knead it and bake it.
I used a recipe from Fr. Dominic–2 cups of flour, 2 cups of water, a tablespoon of brown sugar or honey, and a packet of yeast. Or you can skip the packet of yeast and just see what bugs your kitchen turns up. You let this sit on your counter in a bowl with a cloth over it for three or four days, then put it in a jar in the fridge. Every week or so, the recipe said, you take a cup or so out to make bread with and add a cup or so of stuff back–flour, water, milk, mashed potatoes, whatever works best for you. You’re supposed to let it sit out a day or so when you feed it, and then put it back in the fridge. Those were the instructions I followed–I used commercial yeast.
I’m an avid sourdough baker. The best FAQs can be found here.
I’m also a sourdough purist…meaning there is no way in hell that you are making a true sourdough culture if you include ANY commercial yeast. The wild yeast in an SD culture are specifically designed to tolerate the high acidity of a culture and to work in concert with the lactobacilli basteria that creates the characteristic “tang”. See here for more details.
Terminology can be tricky in SD baking, partly due to the various cultures involved. What the French call a “poolish”…Americans may call a sponge, for example. A starter is used to create a “sponge” (if you are doing a sponge based baking method), and then fed and returned to the fridge until used again. See here for more terminology.
If you are serious about SD baking, get a good culture to make your starter with.
I suggest either Sourdough International for a commericial product. Or one of the “free” passed around starters like Carl Griffith’s. I’ve used both with great success. Carl was a regular contributor to the rec.food.sourdough newsgroup, until he passed away in 2000. In one of the most worthy uses of the Internet ever, his friends continue to feed and distribute his culture to those who ask. This is a starter that has been around for over 150 years.
It is possible to make your own culture from scratch…depending on where you live. I believe that the above linked FAQ covers that. To be truthful though, you will have much better luck with an established culture.
The idea of whether you can make “San Francisco” SD outside of the bay area is obviously a bit of a debate. SD International DOES sell a SF culture…some bakers insist that the environment in the bay area creates such a big impact on the culture, that a “true” SF SD can’t be baked elsewhere. Others say that the idea is bullshit. Take yer pick:) See here and here for more info on SF Sourdough.
Thanks, beagledave, that’s a very interesting and informative bunch of links–I’m reading them right now. I have to admit I’m not much of a purist about anything, myself–but I’m definitely intrigued by some of the cultures available.
