Preach it! The place across the street from my office only gives you two and there are no dispensers anywhere in the restaurant. There’s also only one waste receptacle in the entire place, so when I blow my nose (thereby using up one of the napkins), I have to carry my used snotty paper napkin to this trashcan, right next to the soda fountain and silverware. (For some reason I always have to blow my nose at some point when I eat there.)
Well, don’t feel too bad for the formula companies. Altruism has nothing to do with their free offers.
But that’s not a valid excuse to steal from them. It’s not OK either legally or morally to steal from someone just because they’re not a nice person (boy am I glad that’s true), and it’s not OK to steal from a company just because you don’t like them. And stealing is certainly not something anyone should ever be proud of doing.
Rest assured, they won’t pay the costs of your stealing from them. They’ll just raise the price of their formula, which hurts the people who are buying it.
That, and if you’re just going to toss the extra bags you don’t want, you’re needlessly generating excess trash.
There’s nothing wrong with that argument, except for the small fact that it’s simply not possible to “steal” free formula.
The formula company was doing a promotion. They budgeted for that promotion. The price of formula is not going up because of people taking advantage (correctly or incorrectly) of the promotion.
Now, it’s entirely possible that her abuse of the promotion prevented other people from being able to take advantage of it (assuming supplies were limited), but she did not singlehandedly drive the price of baby formula beyond the means of millions of families.
She’s an asshole. But isn’t it enough to simply identify her as an asshole? Why spend an ounce of energy convincing yourself (let alone anyone else) that she’s a harbinger of the fall of humanity?
Sorry, but if the offer is for free formula then no one is “stealing” from anyone. It may not be completely honest, but it isn’t stealing. I think that companies build such promotions into their cost structure: 1 woman finagling more free samples than she should doesn’t matter to them. When it comes to cost, it’s no different than if 10 separate people got those samples (and if the woman is using a new name/address each time, it’s really no different). That makes more sense to me than “Hmm, seems like Jane Doe in Arkansas has taken more than her share of our free things, so now we must raise the cost of our not-free things.”
(Or, on preview, what DianaG said. :D)
I’ve been trying to give up my job as General Manager of the Universe for many years. I am able to let many more things go than I used to.
I still feel a need to confront abuse, whether it’s getting 20 diaper bags she can’t use, or a child or pet left in a hot car. As humans, we do have some obligation to society to protect each other.
I’ve learned that trying to protect one from himself is fruitless, and sometimes, downright dangerous.
I’ve learned there is more than one “right” way to do almost anything.
I understand that making a suggestion is like giving a gift. Once the recipient takes possession, it’s theirs, to do with as they please. My advice is not law.
I’m more comfortable knowing there are so many competent applicants for my position as G.M. of the U. but, I’m sometimes disturbed by the number of people that think they already have the job! [sub]None of you, of course![/sub]
I do simply identify her as an asshole. I don’t think she’s a harbinger of the fall of humanity- I think every group of humans that has ever existed has had their share of assholes.
I’m working on a song to sing to myself when I encounter such people:
(to the tune of the first line of the chorus of Ode to Joy)
Asshats, asshats, clueless asshats
If anyone’s got some more contributions to the song, feel free to let me know. And you can sing it if you like, but at your own risk- I’m not responsible for anything that happens if someone hears you singing it.
I’d do more than say “asshole” to myself if someone left a child or pet in a hot car. I’d feel an obligation to call the police on that one.
If the formula offer said “one per household” than the first one was free, the rest were only free because you applied a variation of the five fingered discount. Just like taking a handful of candy at Halloween when the offer is “one peice.” And promotion dollars come from somewhere. The promotion fairy doesn’t just show up with bags, formula and a fulfillment house. If the promotion increases revenue (and or market share) enough to pay for itself, it may be successful, but that isn’t likely if everyone scammed - or even if a fair number of people scammed.
One of the measures of ethical behavor in Kantian analsysis is “what would happen if everyone did this?” The formula scam fails that one big time. If everyone got twenty diaper bags/cans of formula, the formula company would suffer, the promotion would end.
Just because you can get away with something, does not make it ethical behavior.
What makes it particularly annoying is the advent of the internet. Its turned the “yeah, I knew a woman who used to return shoes after wearing them for a week - she’d masking tape the bottom” to taping the bottom of you shoes and returning them a valid money saving strategy for getting the perfect shoes for that occation - with whole little communities of people who get “bargains” by “working the system.” Which is sometimes, indeed, working a system (hey, you want to drive to six stores to shop loss leaders, your business), and sometimes is another way of saying “stealing” by “cheating.”
You think we all do something every time we get worked up about somebody’s misdeeds? I certainly don’t- I just think “they’re an asshole”. Of course, I’m lazy, so there is a large gulf between my thinking something and actually doing something.
Don’t you see the difference in seriousness, though? The woman getting free diaper bags that she doesn’t intend to use is only abusing the system (and even that is a liberal use of the word “abuse”) – SO not the same thing as abusing or endangering a child or pet. Getting riled up about her greed doesn’t “protect” anyone from anything. Or, in your mind, are those examples exactly the same?
(This is meant to be a sincere question, with no snarkiness intended. I truly don’t understand the inability to let others’ perceived infractions go (no matter how minor), so I’m just questioning out of ignorance here…)
I still disagree that it’s stealing – you can’t steal something that’s offered for free, be it Halloween candy or baby formula. The wrong here is greed, not stealing.
Of course promotion dollars come from somewhere, but it’s my understanding that most large companies pretty much write those dollars off as soon as they’re allocated. Whenever anything is offered for free, companies like this know that there will be people who take advantage of the offer and take more than their share – they bank on the fact that most people will not.
I don’t believe that anyone has either said or implied that the woman in question is acting ethically, but I disagree with your conclusion. While it’s true that the promotion will end as soon as the free supplies are gone, having that happen sooner rather than later does not cause the company to “suffer.” Nor does taking all of the candy from a bowl marked “one per person” cause the purchaser of said candy to suffer. The only ones who suffer are the ones who might have gotten something for free before the supplies ran out.
No, not every time, but you’ve all admitted to doing something at least some of the time. I was just wondering if any of you ever notice the good in the world around us to the same extent that you notice the bad – that is, to the point where you would say something to someone else about it.
(Same disclaimer here as on my question to picunurse. :))
So if I offer something 4 for $1 and you take five, the fifth isn’t stealing? Or buy one get one free, taking a third isn’t stealing?
And what, exactly, are promotion dollars written off against? (They are marketing dollars applied to product costs, and get allocated to the cost of the product in cost accounting and applied to SG&A in financial accounting - both increase expenses and decrease revenue - which causes a company to take other measures to maintain or increase their margin).
I don’t think they’re the same, I would (obviously, I hope) be much more riled up about someone abusing a child. The Diaper Bag Lady gets me riled up on a different level. It’s almost philosophical (also somewhat neurotic, I realize that).
As you point out, the Diaper Bag company builds such promotions with the understanding that yes, some people will take advantage. But think how much better it would be if companies had good reason to believe that no one would take advantage – they could have more promotions and we all could benefit more. “Some people” is not some vague, abstract concept – it’s specific individuals who add up together to be “some people.”
To make it really dramatic, it’s like those wildlife parks where they ask that people not take a rock (for example) as a souvenir. Pick up the rocks, exclaim at the interesting fossils, and put the darn rock back in the river bed. The park people probably do assume that “some people” will snag their rock anyway. Sure, if a few people took a rock it wouldn’t be any big deal, but if everyone took a rock, that would eventually be a problem. Protecting a fragile ecosystem is much more compelling than protecting the world supply of free diaper bags, but I see it as a similiar thing in theory. What I can’t understand is why certain individuals want to be in the group of “some people.” They’re counting on the fact that “most people” will behave well enough to minimalize the impact of their own poor behavior. To me it seems like saying “oh yeah, I want to be part of the group that makes things more difficult for everyone else!”
And yes, I am the kind of person who comments on things that I think are nice behavior as well. I also write letters to companies if I get good customer service, possibly to the extent that my letters go right in the “crazy lady” file.
Yes, when they impact the total system (economic system, ecosystem, etc.) like in the OP. May not affect me directly in an obvious way, but no action happens in a vacuum.
Yes, yes I do when faced with the situation. I recall a recent experience in a parking lot where I had been waiting for a space. A woman pulled into the lane from the other way and was gonna take the space. I think she read my lips saying “hey, that’s my space!”. She went on past to a different stall. When I saw her as we were walking to the store and I was loading up the kids, I called out “thanks! I appreciated that!”. She replied “no problem”.
As an aside and as a driver, I realize there are situations in which I’ve been inconsiderate. Nowadays I always stick a hand out the window with an “I’m sorry” wave and a exaggerated mouthing of “sorry!” if I’ve inconvenienced anybody. I’ve found that the practice tends to dissolve road rage just a bit. Good thing, that.
**Re: the free diaper bag from the formula companies. **They’re NOT giving away diaper bags as a “benefit” that “we all can share in.” It’s almost a totally separate issue from what we’re discussing here (which is more along the lines of taking an extra piece of Halloween candy) because it’s the formula manufacturers who are the ones acting unethically.
Here’s why. Like any company, anywhere, they know that offering something free builds customer loyalty. So, they give diaper bags full of samples and coupons to hospitals, who in turn give them out to new mothers “in case they choose to formula feed.”
If you have been following the “why is breastfeeding such a hot issue?” thread, you know that there are enormous pressures on women to breastfeed, and I would argue those pressures have arisen (unfortunately) due to the tactics of formula companies, who in tandem with decades’ worth of sociatial pressures (“I was bottle-fed and I’m fine” ; “formula is more scientific” ; “nursing is for hippies/poor people” etc.) have made bottle-feeding the norm in our society.
Stay with me here. If you realize that nursing is not a problem-free proposition, as formula companies do, you want to do everything you can to get your formula in the hands of potentially stressed out mothers. With formula within easy reach, it’s easier for a breastfeeding mother to give up. If she’s got your formula in her hands, she’s going to stick with it for the remainder of the baby’s bottle-feeding days out of brand loyality and because a mother is unlikely to mess with her baby’s nutrition by switching brands. And so, they’re acting unethically because they’re doing everything they can to undermine breastfeeding. And it’s why some hospitals refuse to allow them to give away the diaper bags and formula sample in their facilities.
So what I was trying to say above was that giving customers a nice benefit and withdrawing that benefit due to crazy diaper bag snatchers is not something anyone needs to feel sorry for the formula companies about. They’ve got much bigger fish to fry.
Misnomer
I do, if it is at all convenient and I don’t think I’ll totally freak someone out(like chasing them across a parking lot to tell them how great I think they are for not parking in the handicap space when they are clearly able-bodied). But don’t think I actually get involved in most things that I disapprove of, however much I might like to. I’d LIKE to stop in front of that asshat who tosses garbage on the ground in public and tell him/her to pick it up and put it in the garbage, else keep it in his car till s/he gets home. But I don’t, of course, because asshats frequently are also violent, crazy people who will launch into you with unbelievable vitriol or possibly weapons. I just snarl and seethe to myself about rudeness, selfishness and the doom of civil society, pick it up myself(pointedly if possible) and vent on message boards where hopefully one or two offenders will see and know they are pissing people off.
And what I’m saying is that, no matter how evil the formula companies are, that doesn’t justify abusing their “one per customer” promotion. If you don’t approve of their business practices, the right thing to do would be to not buy their product, not to abuse their promotion. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Not a chance.
I’m not arguing it’s right to abuse the promotion. I’m just saying don’t call what they’re doing a benefit.