Anyone else like the "Tales of" series of JRPG's?

I’m playing Tales of the Abyss right now(due to a kind Doper that let me borrow it) and am really into it.

It isn’t my first Tales game. I’ve played Tales of Symphonia and Tales of Phantasia(translated on SNES).

I’m wondering what people think of the series here. I think it gets kind of a “third place” ranking from most people. I think Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy get a lot higher profile, perhaps deservedly, but I really rather like the Tales games. They are way more consitent in quality, too. I haven’t played every game, but you won’t, I think, find a huge stinker of a game(like FF2j or DQ2).

Anyway, what are your experiences and how do you rank them?

Here they are, by the way:

Tales of:

Phantasia

Eternia

Destiny

Destiny 2(Japan only)

Symphonia

Rebirth(Japan only)

Legendia

Abyss

Innocense(Japan only)

Vesperia

Thoughts? Underrated? Overrated?

I’ve only played Tales of Phantasia. It may have had the best mechanics of any SNES RPG. The only competitor is Lufia II’s high-quality puzzles. The combat in Lufia II was kind of boring though and your party is pretty fragile. On the other hand, ToP is pretty easy once you have the rhythm of combat down. The only difficulty came from broken combat mechanics like hit-recovery stunlocking and the lack of a cooldown on damage for some attacks.

I dunno. I haven’t played a console RPG since beta 2.

I’m with you on FF2 (the combat system is terribly, terribly broken), but what’s your issue with DQ2?

Found it dull.

I’m only on Abyss, and I’m kind of meh. I’ve grown up quite a bit since I started playing RPGs. I kind of require either the political machinations/darker parts of Ivalice, or the sheer fuckery of SMT/Persona. There’s a political scene in Abyss where I’m just like…if this was an Ivalice game, everyone would be backstabbing each other like something out of Hamlet.

Master Badtouch keeps me coming back for more though. I’m at the point where the game makes me do stupid useless quests to prolong the time before you go to the final stuff

I played Tales of Vesperia on the 360 and found it pretty fun, with a good combat system, but after awhile I just got very bored with it. The characters weren’t very like-able and the story was nothing to impress.

Especially with the dungeons that just go on…and on…and on…

I’d argue that the Dragon Quest series isn’t really ahead of Tales in popularity over here - certainly it is in Japan, where I think it probably actually BEATS Final Fantasy - but the number of actual DQ releases over here is extremely small. They’re finally sortof trying to get it together with releasing DQ9 over here, but a look back at the history of the series in North America is kinda…sketchy. A lot of people probably still aren’t even aware that it’s the same series as “Dragon Warrior” since that was the name they used for the old PS and NES releases.

Not that Tales of has a stellar history over here either, but it has more games in ‘recent’ history than DQ has. (Tales of Legendia and The Abyss on PS2, Eternia/Destiny II on the PS, Symphonia Gamecube, “Symphonia 2” on the Wii, and Vesperia 360.).

I tend to agree with those folks who found Vesperia somewhat wanting. Neither characters nor story resonated particularly well with me, and overall I found the whole product felt a little bit unfinished. Not technically unfinished - the game was bug free and all the systems were fleshed out - but storyline unfinished. Like they only wrote about half of it and then made up the rest as they went along, or as if the story were only the very first draft. It sounds like it got pretty monstrous revisions for the PS3 version, which might have fixed those issues, but I thoroughly do not approve of the new character they added. Plus, no PS3 localization. x.x

I really liked Abyss - it’s a very effective personal game. While there are political elements (sometimes fairly heavy) they’re not the focus, nor are they a shifting quagmire of intrigue (which I find gets old quickly.) The game is about personal decisions, being your own person, learning from the past and moving on. Not sure what you would mean by “stupid useless quests” though - I felt Abyss very seldom wasted any time. You might be surprised about some of that stuff later. Or you might not. It’s kinda hard to tell from your description. :wink:

I’ve played Tales of Symphonia and Vesperia.

The combat system is real-time and very enjoyable, with a healthy amount of options and tactics. The storylines and characters are also well done (in a stereotypical-anime-angsty-teen way). There is a fun silly sense of humor to the whole production.

My knock about the series is the grindy nature. The game uses boss encounters as the major progression gateways, and to defeat the boss you typically have to do a large amount of grinding through combat encounters to level up your party enough.

There is also a fair amount of “no going back” for items or upgrades. If you missed Conversation X in Chapter Y of side-quest Z, then you missed your chance at that particular cool item/skill and there is no going back for it.

This is definitely not a global truth for the series; I haven’t played Symphonia, so maybe it does this heavily, but Vesperia had ONE boss that I would consider any sort of barrier (That freakin’ WOLF THING in the forest really early on.), which, frankly, I considered a total aberration, because I never even felt pressured by any other boss elsewhere in the game. (Excepting, of course, optional bonus bosses, which are supposed to be punishing by design.)

Abyss also has one “difficulty spike” boss (And frankly, not as hard as that stupid wolf), relatively early on and then it’s smooth sailing.

Aside from those two instances, I would consider Vesperia and Abyss completely grind free, though Vesperia encourages grinding with its stupid item synth system, it’s absolutely not required to complete the game except for that bloody wolf. Honestly, I think both games could stand to be a little HARDER - a nontrivial amount of the problem with the ‘difficulty spike’ bosses in both games is that neither one has done anything to REALLY teach you/require you to learn the ins and outs of the battle system until you hit those fights (Which are both, incidentally, entirely beatable on normal at the level you would ‘naturally’ hit them at, by a player who has a firm grasp of the battle system.). So you’re doing the same sloppy/beginner style fighting you’ve been doing up until then, and suddenly the game comes down on you like a ton of bricks. Once you get past those unique bosses though, there’s really nothing that compares with them in relative difficulty until you start hitting optional content.

So neither is at all grindy or boss-barrier based, but both difficulty/learning curve scaling issues early on (Vesperia moreso than Abyss.). Symphonia might be another story, though it’s also a little bit older and therefore perhaps still has some holdovers from earlier RPG design.

This is true, but what RPG doesn’t do this? Tales games have more of it because they have more optional stuff, as opposed to the extreme linearity of, say, an FF game, but optional stuff is pretty much missable by definition in RPGs. I guess this one comes down to a matter of choice - do you want there to be a lot of interesting sidequesty optional stuff, or do you want the game to be, well, even more linear? I enjoy seeing what I stumble into the first time through, and then typically will do a “new game plus” playthrough with a FAQ handy to see the stuff I didn’t. I think this is the playstyle the Tales games are trying to encourage, because there’s usually a ton of stuff that can ONLY be done on a second playthrough anyway.

Actually, in the Tales games I’ve played, the dungeons have been very short. Especially in Symphonia and Abyss.

It’s one of the things I like about the series. I’m not afraid to pick it up and play and worry that I won’t be able to save for an hour or more.

I would say that the series actually is better than the Dragon Quest Series, but to be fair, I have not played DQ8.

Vesperia did have a couple of dungeons that I felt were ‘long’. Ghasfarost and the final dungeon are the ones that leap to mind. The final dungeon in Abyss is pretty lengthy too, but has at least once midway save point.

DQ8 was okay, but if people here think Tales games are too grindy, they had better stay far, FAR away from DQ8. DQ8 reminds you what grinding is. Not “Oops, I lost to that boss, so I’d better go get a couple more levels”. More like “Ooops, that random encounter just killed me, I guess I’m not really supposed to be fighting here yet.”

Gameplay spoilers for Abyss!

[spoiler]I haven’t picked it up for about a year, so forgive me if I’m not exact.

So I’m near the end where I’m running around the entire damn world going around making Luke and Tear run into dungeons so they can do their Fonic thing so the world doesn’t fall down in the meantime. But it feels like such a grind, like they made so many of these locations you have to go to just to stretch out the game. I know my next move is to confront Van for a final battle since the plot told me what he wants to do. The game taunted me with the plot carrot, and now that I’m excited to see the climax, it laughs at me and goes ‘wait, we need you to do a bunch of stupid dungeons first just to prolong the game even though you just want your damn hard-earned ending!’.

(just checked GameFAQs - I’m at the point where I have to go everywhere with the Fonons to connect the Sephiroth, after which guess what?! I get to play with the God-Generals and get my plot playoff.)
[/spoiler]

Ahhhh. Well, let’s just say I suggest pushing on. You are, as you say, nearly there. (Personally, I didn’t mind the runaround at all, since the dungeons were interesting and the reasoning made sense.)

I’ve only played Tales of Symphonia and its sequel, but I’d probably rank the former as one of my favorite games of all time. Admittedly, that’s probably due more to the characters than anything in particular about the game mechanics…although I really didn’t think it was unduly “grindy”. I also haven’t played any of the Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest titles, so I may not have much of a basis for comparison.

What I would like to know, though, is if and when anyone is going to import the Tales of Symphonia OAV series to North America.

Good points, and I think the Tales games succeed at relief from grind much better than any other JRPG that comes to mind.

My irk is the trope of using free-roaming monsters that can easily be avoided. However, if I avoid them then I’m sure to take a lumping later on because I haven’t leveled enough. So, I’m required to slog through the otherwise avoidable encounters just to make sure my experience tank is always topped full.

The only game I’ve ever felt did it better was Phantasy Star 4, which DID have random encounters, but if you killed every random encounter it threw at you, you were always at exactly the right level for an entertaining but thoroughly beatable boss fight. And the only reason this is better is because of the lack of any difficulty spike bosses.

I just… don’t understand this at all. First of all, while I guess some of the random encounters are ‘easily avoidable’, a lot of the “dungeons” have pretty narrow corridors, to the point where it’s more work to avoid the monsters than it is to fight them. Second, Tales has what might well be the most entertaining battle system of any RPG I’ve ever played, except, perhaps, the Grandia games (Which had a spectacularly fun battle system, but were otherwise lackluster (Grandia 2) or outright bad (Grandia 3)) so… why are you avoiding battles? And thirdly…well, are you SERIOUSLY complaining that fights are avoidable instead of forced? Would you find the game “less” grindy if random encounters just exploded onto your screen with a chord and a swirl, so you had no -choice- but to fight them? You can still avoid the monsters you find particularly annoying, or creep past a few to reach a save point and restore your HP, or any other reason you might think of to skip encounters.

Lastly, “forcing you to fight avoidable encounters” has nothing to do with being GRINDY. A game that is grindy is a game that forces you to go BACK and fight the same encounters AGAIN because going through an area once is -not- -enough- to get the XP you need in order to proceed. Remember Dragon Warrior? You probably don’t, and that’s for the best, but -that- game was grindy. You could tell it was grindy because what you would go out into the field, kill things until you needed to rest, return to town, stay at the inn, and REPEAT that until you had enough XP/levels/gear to move on to the next area. The definition of “grinding” is in the repeated nature. Just having to kill most (Not all) monsters that are in your way on a trip through a dungeon is not grinding.

And it’s still less fighting than having the random encounters just jump on you out of nowhere and having to rely on a random “run” command to ‘avoid’ them.

For those of you that played Tales of Symphonia 2, was it any good?

Anyone?

Did not play, but had friends who loved the first Symphonia say that it was an okay game, but it didn’t stand up to the original at all. Like, the game was a decent game and don’t pass it over because Nintendo is lacking RPGs but don’t expect to love it like Symphonia. They say the main characters were weak and didn’t grab them like the originals did.