I’ve hiked in/out and across the GC many times, but doing any of it gets a hard “no” from me between May and September. It’s uncomfortable and dangerous. Even in October the inner canyon is uncomfortably hot. I’m glad you’re using guides. I’m not sure how much control they give you regarding daily start times, but I’d use the night to make it cooler, even if it means starting at 1 AM.
Descending stairs is tough on the legs/knees. Suggest she do all of the ups but skip some of the downs; that can either be done by jumping ( 
) or elevator from the top.
Yes, this.
I take 4 ibuprofen right before my descent. Also earphones. Some music or a podcast keeps my mood up and distracts me from my achy joints.
Yes.
The other side of the argument is that it is a very specific thing to prep for. For me. (And my knees have yet to act up, knock wood) Not sure what advice to give my daughter though. Her baseline is good. And her stairs/incline is more gym based, so not much down now. Cardiorespiratory wise I don’t think this will be a problem but I want don’t want her in knee pain for a long climb out on the last day.
I thought she was doing the garage with you, which is why I made my original suggestion
I fully understand that she’s training for something that is 49% descending (+49% ascending & 2% flat, if that much) so some of that specific training is a good thing. In most garages walking down the ramps isn’t at tough on the legs as going down the stairs even though it takes longer because of the longer/shallower length of the ramp as compared to the stairs for the same amount of descent.
I remember seeing a sign near that start of the trail that said “down is optional, up is mandatory”.
Not R2R, but friends did a loop from the South Rim in November. South Kaibab trail down to Phantom Ranch, then Bright Angel back up. 22 miles in 12 hours, both in their 60s. Quite the accomplishment. They were both trashed at the end and confessed it was the hardest hike they have done, but highly recommend it and plan on going again next fall.
The entire second day for the OP, along the Bright Angel creek, is going to be fairly flat. The same for most of the mileage on the third day after the haul out of the inner canyon. So the OP will be breaking it up some. Call it 1/3rd to 2/5ths flat, largely at start & end.
This is a good point - what will the phase of the moon be when you’re doing the hike? If you’ll be close to a full moon, you can do a lot of hiking well before sunrise.
I remember another sign that showed a guy projectile vomiting, warning of heatstroke, saying, “Don’t let this be you!”
I’ve often wished I took a photo of that sign!
ignorance fought; I thought it was mostly down a canyon wall; across the bottom & then back up the other side. RtR (or RtRtR) is definitely on my bucket list but as a day trip, not a multiday, camping event. Yes, I’ve done a number of ultramarathons in my past but am not in that kind of shape now (which is why it’s on the bucket list rather than the accomplishment list)
This should have been “ascent and descent” largely at start & end.
Ah. No. Yeah specific guidance for her training is appreciated!
Her knees had acted up some during marathon training and required a week rest here and there but was okay race day. I hurt more after than she did!
I had a bit of heat exhaustion near the bottom. I managed to cross the bridge and get to the water stop at the river. Drank my fill and poured more over my head and body. Between there and Phantom Ranch I threw some of it back up.
The second day was exhausting, but no signs of distress like the first day.
For endurance events like marathons in the heat the biggest risk is usually related to overhydration, causing low sodium (hyponatremia), which can cause seizures and death.
Thirst seems a good guide to me.
Bright Angel Canyon runs NNE to SSW and has steep walls, in “The Box” the walls are so steep the bottom only gets direct sunlight (or moonlight) for a few hours a day regardless of season, and at full moon you would only get light in the few hours bracketing midnight. The trails are generally well-maintained and have bridges so no fording is required but I wouldn’t call them groomed and it would be inadvisable to hike them in full darkness. It is surprising to me but apparently more than a handful of people manage to get lost in the Grand Canyon every year even though the trails are well-marked and you have to work hard to get out of sight of them. Off trail there are copious hazards so hikers are well-advised to stay on the trail.
I suspect the comment regarding hiking before sunrise is intended to avoid the heat but unlike hiking ‘up top’ in high desert, the canyon really doesn’t cool down at night, and actually gets warmer as you go down (the air is trapped at the bottom despite being warm because the bottom of the canyon is at 2,400 ft ASL and the rims are over a mile above sea level), so there isn’t a lot of advantage to hiking early between Cottonwood and Phantom Ranch. Paying attention to signs of heat exhaustion and avoiding heat stroke are really important, although since the o.p. is doing this across multiple days there shouldn’t be so much incentive to keep going in order to make time.
I would recommend an early start on the hike out up to South Rim because at upper elevations wind tends to pick up over the day, and you will have more daylight margin to take rests; I crossed Silver Bridge in near darkness (with a headlamp) but it was full light by the time I got off the River Trail. The o.p. will have a different route that is steeper and unfortunately less scenic in the lower part (I loved hiking along the little self-contained wetlands along Pipe Creek and the tree stands up Garden Creek) and with more overall exposure but they will at least have about a ~5 mile section in the middle that isn’t just endless uphill.
Stranger
@DSeid, if you don’t mind sharing, which days in late June will you be there? My wife and I will be staying in one of the cabins at the North Rim Lodge on the 25th & 26th to celebrate our wedding anniversary. We were originally supposed to have our wedding at Point Imperial on the North Rim back in 2020 but Covid forced us to reschedule from earlier in June and when we did get there the Mangum wildfire in the Kaibab National Forest had the only road to the North Rim closed. We ended up getting hitched at Horseshoe Bend further upstream, and are making the trip back this year to see what we missed. But we’re definitely not in good enough physical condition to do an R2R hike, especially that time of the year.
However, if the dates happen to coincide it would be pretty cool to say “Hi” to another Doper out in the wild! Feel free to PM if you don’t want to go public with the dates.
In addition to Stranger’s excellent advice, I like to start no later than 4 am, and I like to have a headlamp and a handheld flashlight. The headlamp is always pointed where I’m looking, and the handheld gives me contrast and depth perception that the headlamp doesn’t. Also good to have a 2nd light source if one fails. Learned that the hard way.
As a slight hijack, has anyone done South Kaibab/Tonto/Bright Angel (not going all the way down to Phantom Ranch)? Seems doable as a long day hike with the Tonto leg a nice relative flat stretch to recover from the Kaibab descent. Certainly much more doable than rim to river and back.
I much prefer canyon hiking to mountain hiking since I am finishing with the uphill, which is way easier for me to recover from. Twelve years ago a 53 year old me hiked Finger Rock Canyon in the Catalina Foothills north of Tucson. Just short of 3900 feet of elevation gain in a five mile hike (actually in four miles since the first mile is almost flat). Plus a lot more rugged than the GC trails. The downhill was brutal - I could barely walk for a week.
I’ve done Kaibab-Tonto-BA. It’s nice, less elevation change obviously, but I’m not sure it’s shorter. The Tonto does a lot of zigzags to get across washes.
On way back to Flagstaff!
We lucked out on the heat. Max was 103 and honestly it felt mild. Down North Kaibab at the start was definitely hard on toes and shins but otherwise this was not so bad.
Did Clear Creek to view of river in the early afternoon on my own. Kids lounged in the creek.
Tonto Trail was nice.
A high point was a detour off North Kaibab to Ribbon Falls:
https://imgur.com/gallery/iSAUGJ1#MAuMpeo
Thanks for the advice!