Anyone have experience: radical career change (mid 30's, married w/kids)

Here I sit…a Group Manager for a national credit reporting agency.

What I do: I send jobs overseas…I support our offshoring efforts…I replace people with automation or cheaper labor. I make sure that the systems that replace people function, and I make sure the systems that alllow us to offshore work. I am a bridge between our engineers, business process folks, our vendors and our offshoring partner.

I ducked the downsizing bullet. But what I do sucks. Even if I support unbridled capitalism, that doesn’t mean I feel any reward for my efforts.

I put school aside a while ago to stay on the corporate fastrack. Travelling teams and constantly changing job duties always meant more cash, so I could justify putting off the last chunk of my college credits. Well, I am finally finishing my degree.

But even with a degree, I’m in dangerous waters. So much of my experience is call center related…and they’re all headed to India, the Phillipines, South Africa, etc.

I don’t want to sit in a pond like a duck waiting to be shot.

I have a wife, a home/mtg, and two kids (both under 5). I can do the school thing…because it seems like life or death.

In my wildest dream, I want a radical change. I would love to become a lawyer. The problem is that I don’t know if that is possible. My education now is financed by my company.

*So, is it possible to start law school in my late 30’s? Can you work fulltime and go to lawschool? Is it possible to get sponsored somehow? *

I just want to wrestle control of my future. Sure, I’d like to preserve as much of my lifestyle as possible. I have a beautiful family/home and a killer income right now, but I am not willing to become one of those people who lost their job and can’t do anything about it.

So, there are my ramblings. I guess I want to know if it’s possible to make a radical change, and if I have a shot at becoming a lawyer. If I’m dreaming, so be it.

I do know someone in his 40s who recently completed a law degree while working full time. I don’t know if he was sponsored in any way or had education benefits he could have used. He is a Ph.D. doing epidemiological research for the Navy. He is also in charge of human subjects use issues, so it’s possible that he was able to justify getting the law training in some way. Senior civil servants are also able to rack up a considerable amount of leave time, so that was probably also a big advantage in his case.

Does you company have any education benefits you aren’t using. Is there some way you could propose this as a boon to them?

Stamina my friend…stamina! It boils down to what you think you can handle, how supporting your wife is, how much time you want to spend with your children etc…etc…Maybe downgrading your expectations to something a little less threatening to your current life situation. How about a Career change. Start looking into something you can say you like to do…a job where you get up and feel good. A company that may have tuition reimbursment…Something completely outside of what you do. Use your skills in a functional resume and send it out to several places you think you would like working at…even if they are not hiring.
My brother did it at 34 and loves the move. He started working for a natinoal non-profit from being an engineer…don’t get much more drastic than that. He works for a feel good company making high 50’s a year…I say go for it. but include all the people who’s life will be involved in the decision making. Why not become a contractor consultant…Too bad you don’t live in CT…I do weekend consulting and it’s quite lucrative and fun! Always got my eyes out for a smart partner :slight_smile:

I am taking advantage of tuition reimbursement my company offers, because my field of study is related to my job (zzzzz-management-zzzz).

If I choose law school at some point, it’d be a loooooongshot at reimbursement.

But we have several law firms under retainer that do tons of defense work for us. If anything, I am about as familiar with credit reporting laws as anyone. Which leads me to my ‘sponsor’ question. I wonder if they would see it as a huge advantage to have someone with my credit reporting experience have a law degree, when their bread-n-butter is defending a national credit bureau.

Phlosphr, what type of consulting do you do when you’re not hanging out with the squirrels?

I dropped out of high school two months into my junior year, then got my GED three months before my class graduated (you could do that then). Several years later, I started at a community college, graduated from there, then moved on to a major univeristy and got my degree in Behavioral Science. It took me about 7 years, most of them part time, to get that degree

I’ve worked in the non-profit world for awhile, and am now into the for profit world, but found very quickly that the cap (in my current area) for salary is less then $40K (and even that is on the very, very high side–most jobs in my area with my degree are under $30K). I could go back and get a masters in Social Work, but the idea of doing that for the next 10-15+ years makes me want to scream. What I really, really want to do is teach middle school.

So, this fall, I’m planning on enrolling in Master’s level classes for my Masters in Secondary Education. My old school loans are still in deferment (try paying back $40K in school loans/interest on less than $35K a year, and supporting three kids single handedly), but I figure if I can keep them in deferment until I die, then there they go. Actually, as soon as I get my Certification to teach, whichever school district hires me should help me towards my Master’s degree. Until then, it’s two classes a semester.

I thought about tuition assistance through my current employer (even though I basically hate my job, I’ll be staying with them until I get my certification), but their idea is to help towards a “related degree” (such as business manangement–kill me please), plus I’d have to stay with the company a minimum of one year after the class, or pay them back out of my own pocket.

I know it’s not going to be easy, but now that the two older kids are in college (funded by themselves), it’ll just be me and the little guy. the way I figure it, it’s gonna be easier than the last time I did this. (Ha.) I’m just tired of not doing what I really want to do (teach).

Philster -

I feel your pain. I also have 2 kids under five and, from the sounds of it, do very similar work for the customer service department of a fortune 500 company. By many standards I have a good job in terms of pay, responsibility, etc. But it just ain’t fun or rewarding. The offshoring thing that’s come up in the last 2 years has only made it much worse. But enough about me…

One means of escape you might consider is going back for a PhD. It will take longer than a law degree, but in some ways is less demanding on cash flow. Assuming you get into a solid program, most disciplines will waive the tuition and cough up 10-15K/yr as a stipend. The kicker is getting the PhD in a field that will make you employable at a reasonable salary when it’s done. (Many fields do not pay professors well at all, and even then jobs can be hard to come by.) I don’t know if this is an option in law, but I have been looking into it in business.

Best of luck!

I

Ooo! Ooo! Hey I’m reading a book about this right now (because I heard the author on NPR, not because I want to change careers. I got a sweet gig right now)

What Should I Do With My Life:The True Story of People Who Answered the Ultimate Question by Po Bronson. Lots and lots of stories of people who made major life changes. Not nice and neat though. Not a self-help book, more a documentary (what’s the word for that in books?).

Damn. I need that book too. (Says Sunspace, who is contemplating bailing out of the computer field and heading for the art world. Maybe.)

So it’s a narrative…a bunch of biographies…hmmm. I’ll check it out.

I know squat about PhD’s. Man, that seems like a long road though.

My field of study is Environmental Psychology. Essentially the study of people with-in their environments. I consult on everything from Corporate office set-up and design (making cube life more liveable and more productive) to hospital set-up and design (what colors to make different operating rooms and maternity wards) to private design (kids spaces and fun adult living i.e. tree-homes)

I am more on the conceptual side than anything else. As you can tell from my posts on construction and home repair :slight_smile:

The consulting is a welcome release from teaching, and a nice lucrative way to make an established name for myself.

Phlosphr, so how do you feel about the whole Feng Shui thing? :smiley:

Aside from the spiritual hocus-pocus I like it :slight_smile:

Hey Philster, just saw this thread and thought I would throw in my two cents. I’m single myself but have had a number of friends/colleagues in your boat, so I got to see the issues they faced.

First thing - do NOT go for a Ph.D. if your heart isn’t in it. Period. A doctorate will not pave the road to riches or even job security, necessarily, and if you’re in a halfway decent program you will be devoting tremendous amounts of time to your studies for a period of 4-5 years, minimum. Of my classmates who started their Ph.D. in your circumstances, all experienced significant stress above and beyond the usual grad school guff - spouses who were initially supportive got tired of living almost like single parents, people missed spending time with the kids, some people got flack from their advisors for dividing their attention (!). Money also became an issue, because even if you were fortunate enough to have full tuition and a stipend (by no means guaranteed at many institutions, and most commonly given in the physical sciences only), the drop in household income pinched badly. It was rough road, so it’s not something to get into unless you feel it’s the key to the career you truly want.

But you mentioned law as being of real interest to you. Law school, as far as I could tell, could be equally rough on one’s time with family, but unlike many Ph.D. programs it’s possible to go part-time by taking night classes. I used to work for a legal publisher that actively encouraged people to go for their law degrees by night, and paid for everything, because of course they were hoping to retain at least some of those people on staff once they finished (all upper-level editorial positions required someone with a law degree). I don’t know whether the law firms you mentioned would be essentially willing to hire you and send you to school for a couple of years until you can be of use to them with your credit background, but I don’t think it’s likely. Why not ask your current firm if law school tuition reimbursement is really out of the question? You might be pleasantly surprised. The alternative would be to take student loans out, of course, but whether you want to do that when you’re concerned about the stability of your current job is a question only you can answer.

Whatever you decide - best of luck to you.

I had it made when I was 25.

I found I had a knack for sales, and rose to the top of my department. I was one of those guys they didn’t dare promote, because I was too good at selling, but I kept getting raises because management didn’t want me thinking I was getting passed over. Middle management was forced to leave me alone and let me do my job, because I was bringing in so much money. Life was good.

Then, one day, there was a shakeup. No one bothered ME, of course, since I actually served a function for the company… but management slurried and turned over, and suddenly, I had my same boss… but a new crop of supervisors. I ignored them and kept doing my job, selling stuff and making money.

One day, a supervisor decided that I needed to move from my office to a cubicle. I told him to take it up with the boss. Boss told supervisor to stay the hell away from me, leave me alone, let me do my job.

Drove supervisor nuts. An employee I can’t randomly give orders to, just for the purpose of flexing my executive muscle? As the days ground on, my very existence became a thorn in the side of this chump, and he began looking for ways to make me do things. Not major things. Nothing bad, or evil, or even really important. But somehow, if he could not find a way to force me to stop doing my job and acknowledge his authority, somehow, then the universe would surely grind to a halt and Chaos would return to rule!

Over time, this became a major matter with the entire Supervisory Group. Entirely too many sales staff were autonomous, because we actually made money for the company, knew what we were doing, and didn’t violate any rules or policy.

Or, at least, get caught violating any rules or policy.

They finally found a chink in our armor. Plainly, if a good salesman is a good salesman, then with proper application of motivational materials and good management, he can be made a GREAT salesman! And a GREAT salesman can be made into a PHENOMENAL salesman! And a PHENOMENAL salesman can be…

…you get the idea. More and more of my work week began to be devoted to meetings. Long, pointless, stupid meetings in which people who didn’t know anything about salesmanship taught me how to sell things.

Pressure increased. For some reason, if sales did not jump sharply after a “motivational session,” then one’s attitude was suspect. Was there a problem? Why are your sales numbers not increasing?

“My sales numbers are the highest in the department, and have, in fact, set a record.”

“Yes, but why are they not better than they are?” And ghod help you if your numbers actually dipped any, even temporarily. This was indicative of a need on your part for “motivational counseling,” which basically amounted to more and more meetings.

Y’know what? The more time you spend in meetings, the less time you spend selling. The less time you spend selling, the less money you make. The less money you make…

…well, not only was I working partly on commission, but like I said: a dip in your numbers, for any reason, was considered bad trouble. Motivational counseling and salesmanship lectures would be administered.

The company hemmorhaged more money. Steps would have to be taken. We all voted to eliminate the stupid damn meetings.

When the Big Boss Meeting was over… our boss had been kicked upstairs. A new boss had been appointed to oversee the sales department, and he’d been listening to his supervisors.

My job became a nightmare. If I didn’t live up to my old numbers, I was expected to sacrifice some of my numbers from the following week to get up to quota. Meanwhile, there were endless, daily lectures and seminars about how sales could be increased. We found ourselves watching videotapes of ourselves, made without permission, as we dealt with customers, and having our performance dissected by idiot supervisors. “Now, THIS is how you could have NAILED THAT SALE DOWN, son…”

Since our supervisors knew nothing about finesse or salesmanship, they decided that the secret to success was simply to never stop talking, and to frantically hard-sell every customer we dealt with, simply not letting them leave or get a word in edgewise until they gave in. And if they didn’t like this tactic and walked out on us, it was still our fault.

Over eight months, I went from “happy young capitalist” to “frustrated, enraged, nervous young man who feels like he’s being sent out to rob orphans and widows in order to keep his damn job.”

And I realized that the only thing sales had to offer was the money. I was unhappy. I had no sense of accomplishment. Where’s the meaning in talking people out of their money?

So I quit. Went into the mental health business, working in a psychiatric hospital. A friend of mine got me the job, and felt that my interpersonal skills would be useful.

It worked out rather well. It was really very satisfying, feeling like I was helping people, being able to watch people getting better, and feeling like I was part of something big and positive, you know? The money was nowhere near as good, but I was happy.

Over time, things changed. A major HMO bought out my hospital, and immediately began making changes, downsizing, rightsizing, streamlining, and so forth. All of a sudden, quality care went out the window; the bottom line was the money. At one point, I found myself in a seminar on extracting insurance information from patients.

“Pardon me,” I said, “I’m not in financial. I’m direct care, under nursing. What do I have to do with insurance?”

“Any information you can gather and pass on to financial will be helpful,” I was told. “This is how you will gather that information. It is now part of your job.”

After seven years, I quit. The last year in particular, I felt like I was back in sales, all over again, but worse; at least in sales, I’d felt like I was parting competent people from their money, as opposed to mental patients.

I went back to school and got my teaching credentials. I teach high school, now. The money’s okay, the benefits are better, and the kids are much the same as my old patients, except they don’t scream, spit, howl profanity, or throw furniture at me anywhere near as much. Once again, I feel like I’m doing something worthwhile with my life. I’m not miserable for the sake of a paycheck.

Life is too damn short to spend it being miserable for money.

Is it too late to become a plumber? :slight_smile: