It’s interesting reading this thread and listening to poster after poster say, “Well, I’m middle class, and in my neighborhood…” I’m not sure I’ve ever heard an American or Canadian admit to being anything but middle class, maybe with a modifier like “upper middle” or “lower middle”. I do it myself, even though from an income point of view, I have to admit that we are probably “upper,” not “upper middle.” But I don’t feel “upper class.”
Anyone willing to admit being anything else?
It’s an interesting thing that a lot of Americans like to pretend we’re all in the middle class except for a few rich people and a few poor people. I looked in the index of my niece’s history book --she’s 10-- and there was only one mention of class which was in the chapter about the Aztec Empire. The few commercials on television that use images of the working class typically advertise beer or trucks.
Sometimes I have a bit of trouble figuring out the difference between middle class, working class, or whatever class. Is a plumber who makes just as much as a college professor in the middle class or working class?
Anyway, I’d have to go for solidly middle class for me though I’d certainly love to be wealthy or in the upper middle class at the very least.
Marc
I have no class. Ask anyone.
Well, what income ranges do you think define respective classes?
I’m not sure where we fall. We are a couple, 32 and 27, own a 2br 2ba condo, make somewhere just over 100K a year in office, but not professional careers. (I’m in health insurance and he in collections) Where would that place us?
It always annoys me when someomne says or writes, sneeringly, that “Americans are ALL Middle Class.”
Because what else is there?
Most American know they ain’t rich. They’re not Upper Class. They also know they’re not watch-every-penny Poor, and certainly not Living-on-the street-or-in-a -shelter Poor. Nor do I believe that those classes are small populations.
Perhaps the people doing the sneering mean that most Americans are Working Class, but feel they’re too proud to admit it. But I think everyone I know just see the three-part split and jusy know they aren’t rich or poor. I Doubt if most Americans think of blue-collar workers as Lower Class.
I suppose it depends on the guidelines you set or the perspective you use. Someone who is living at the poverty threshold ($10,700 for a single adult, if I remember correctly) would see me as being pretty damn rich where as someone who makes $100k would see me as being pretty damn poor.
Hey, can I sit here? 
I make right at or slightly above the poverty line (I thought it was at 13k for some reason), but my living situation is dirt-cheap (around 200 bucks/month including utilities), and I have some disposable income, being single.
Truly, we are a classless society.
We have plenty of posters that are clearly lower class financially. Some because they are just starting out and some because circumstances have gone bad on them. There is currently a pit thread with many dopers complaining about how much it sucks to be poor.
I grew up lower middle-class and I am now upper-middle class and I even have some hope of retiring a little early in which case I might qualify as rich when I am 63. It depends on what definitions we use.
I guess my definition of Rich in America is either Rich enough not to work and still have disposable income, no real debt and the ability to take nice vacations or to be working but you can afford to have full-time staff and have disposable income, no real debt and the ability to take nice vacations.
What definition are we using, it cannot be income based as it cost far more to live in NJ/NY/Connecticut then let’s say Missouri, Mississippi or Louisiana.
Jim
So, if you had to pick a class descriptor, what would it be? I’m not so much interested in learning what all the Dopers’ financial situation is as learning whether there’s anybody out there who doesn’t see themselves as being “in the middle.”
CalMeacham, I hope you don’t think I’m trying to sneer. I really want to know if there’s anyone out there who uses “upper class” or “lower class” to apply to themselves. (I hadn’t really considered the term “working class” in this context - I guess there are people who use the blue collar/white collar distinction on both sides of the line.)
DudleyGarrett, I’m not sure what I would use for income brackets for the classes. I would think that top 5% or so ought to be in upper class, and probably bottom 5% or so in lower class, but I’m open to argument on either of those, and I don’t know what the actual distribution of incomes is in the US (or other Western countries). I’m also not sure it should really be entirely income-based - for example, in the UK, I would think anyone with an inherited title falls into “upper class” no matter how much (or little) money they make. But since the US eschews such things, I’m not sure what to use other than money.
Recently I was talking to my tax adviser about the recent economic stimulus checks supposedly aimed at the “middle class”. Apparently, Congress has a lower expectation of “middle” than I do, having defined that as running from somewhere below the IRS poverty level to somewhere below what I make. I know I was thinking I was “upper middle”, but never considered myself rich. I should feel good, right? (I suppose I do).
OK, in this case I am not Rich. I must work, but I can afford a cleaning lady and nice vacations, and I have no real debt (but I don’t own a house, either). But how many people are Rich by this definition? It seems like a very tiny group. Is the class really limited to the Paris Hiltons of the world?
I’m not sure where the cut-offs are, but I would guess I’m upper middle class at this point in my life.
It’s hard to define middle class. You can do it statistically, but it doesn’t really give you the flavor of it. In terms of lifestyle, what does middle class mean?
I’d say that you’re rich if you can afford not to work if you choose, if you own a nice home, have full-time help with the children or home maintenance, can afford cars outside the spectrum of typical middle class fare (say, anything above a BMW 5 series), etc. Or, if you can afford multiple dwellings of good quality (summer homes, etc), and can afford to travel as much as you want, wherever you want.
In terms of net worth, I’d say anyone who has less than a million dollars, including their home equity, is definitely not rich.
You’re middle class if you have to work to survive, if you own vehicles typical of what’s offered from Ford, Nissan, etc, if you have to watch your travel budget, and if you can’t afford full time help (although a maid service once a week is pretty common for a lot of middle class folk, as is day care and after school care).
We’re probably upper middle class. We have two professional incomes, own a house in a nice neighborhood, a couple of decent vehicles (not luxury vehicles - a five year old Ford and a three year old Saab), and we have no debt other than a mortgage that’s currently about a third of the value of the house. Vacations anywhere outside of driving distance require financial planning and saving, and there are many places we just can’t afford to visit. We put away a little money for retirement, but we won’t be retiring high on the hog by any stretch.
Defining an economic middle class is relatively easy: simply find income statistics for your local area (whatever that means), and figure out where, say, the 10th and 90th percentiles fall. Anyone in that range is middle class, anyone below it is lower class, and anyone above it is upper class. The middle class for the nation as a whole is then the collection of middle class folks from each local area.
However, we usually speak of socioeconomic class, which suggests that there’s a social aspect as well. Defining a social middle class is much harder. Is that why most people seem to assume that class is simply economic class, and ignore the social aspects? It’s also interesting that everyone’s talking about income levels, rather than income types, or savings, or occupational prestige.
I’m convinced that it doesn’t make sense to talk about a single class ladder. Rather, we should consider a two-dimensional system with separate axes for the social and economic aspects.
No, ENugent, that comment wasn’t ditrected at you. It was at those writers who really do make the sneering obvious ("In America, everybody is “Middle Class” "they write.)
Soon as I’m rich, I will know it because I will stop working. I make in the top 10% or so but sure don’t feel rich, and know it goes away quick if I stop feeding the pot.
I am middle class, but my boyfriend is self-employed poor. He started his own business two years ago, which pays him and his business partner a thousand dollars a month before taxes. However, his standard of living is much higher than it “should” be because I’m a professional-class homeowner.