Surreal, maybe freido is a cat…
I don’t know about fasting being unhealthy for people in general but definitely it would be for me. I tend to feel nauseous/headache-y after skipping only a couple of meals and then that feeling lasts a while. Plus, I’m a competitive person so I feel like I’d get into the mentality of “Oh, maybe just a little more time without food.” From what I’ve read of anorexics, that mentality is common for them as well so I’d be worried about launching myself into some unhealthy eating habits.
For those interested in the actual science behind intermittent fasting, I recommend reading Martin Berkhan’s essay “Top Ten Fasting Myths Debunked”:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
I’m not disputing the general thrust of your argument, but don’t overlook the fact that we expend energy just sitting still - about 1500 calories per day, I think,
So if you ate nothing, and your body burnt nothing but fat to keep you alive (I know it doesn’t do this), then you could lose about half a pound a day.
If you’re just moderately active, and eat nothing, and can somehow guarantee that your body pays the debt solely out of its fat reserves, you could indeed lose a pound a day.
That’s a fair wedge of ‘if’, granted, and I don’t think often in reality people lose a pound a day, and for that pound to be entirely, or even mostly fat.
How bad can fasting be if most Jews do it once a year. Although I am not in the least religious, I do it too. My doctor–also Jewish–knows I fast and has never said a word against it. He fasts too.
I am not saying that regular fasting is good for you (and I am not advocating it for weight loss), but I doubt an occasional fast can harm you.
I have to say I do it once a week too.
I seem to have gotten used to it even. Usually I eat a little more than normal on Friday nights, and started eating less and less on Saturday to the point where I’m not hungry at all on that day. On Sunday I’ll start eating normally again.
I fast one or two times a month.
It works for me. It seems to ‘reset’ me and curbs my hunger.
What works for you? That is primo importante!
If you think fasting is dangerous, boy oh boy… I’d be prepared to back up that with some legitimate references. All I’ve ever learned about the human body indicates that it is good, and in cultures where it is common, there seem to be benefits.
Being hungry is a natural , healthy state. As a rule, based on everything I’ve learned over the years, 'tis better to leave the body wanting. You are better off with 10% less than everything you ‘need’, instead of 10% more than what your body supposedly needs.
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That’s a good read, but you should know that the individuals in the pictures used performance enhancing drugs – most likely anabolic steroids and HGH.
It’s highly unlikely you could lose a pound a day of fat on a diet. My post specifically was talking about people on the first week of a diet. Not eating for 7 days isn’t a diet per se, it’s a week’s fast.
I have recently purchased the “BodyMedia FIT” armband which asserts that it can make a good approximation of how many calories you have burned in a single day. A few years ago I was overweight and really struggled with it, as someone who is on the “other side” of the weight loss issue and hopes to remain so I at one point had an obsessive interest in calorie burn. There are lots of formulas but they just result in numbers for “average” individuals, but not you specifically.
During my weight loss I weighed myself every single day at the same time every day, and then created trend data from that information. Daily weigh ins are meaningless in and of themselves, because weight isn’t a good measure of fat, but with lots of data points and a series going in one direction over time, you can back track and calculate a reliable trend and also a very good approximation for how much you lose in a day. Once you have a very good approximation of your daily loss, you can compare that to your daily intake, and estimate how much you were burning on a day and from there find out how many calories you use “on average.”
The information I charted suggested that on light activity days I burned around 2800 calories and on moderate activity days I burned 3200 (basically days I did 30+ minutes of cardio versus days where I just did my morning calisthenics and no other exercise at all.) That was the results I was able to determine from the “other side” after losing over 65 pounds and analyzing the historical data about my weight.
The BodyMedia FIT device that I bought a few months back seems to get it pretty close to the data from my weight loss, and shows me on average burning around 2800 calories per day.
Back before I lost 65 lbs I was burning around 2800-2900 calories a day (based on my trend data), and that was at a height of 6’5" and a weight of 265 lbs. I mention height because it gives an approximation of what my lean mass was at that weight because lean mass is important in guesstimating your calorie burn sans weigh in information.
Generally the larger you are the more calories you expend just to stay alive your Basal Metabolic Rate is the number of calories you must burn in a day even if all you did was lay on the floor and not move an inch or consume a single piece of food that would require digestion. I’m not entirely sure what my BMR is, but based on charting and a new gadget I’ve found my energy used on an average day (in which I go to the office etc, but don’t do any exercise per se and work in a desk job) is around 2800.
So assuming someone who was overweight (like I was at 265 lbs) burning 2800 calories a day as a sedentary individual is probably a pretty good estimation (it is how much I was burning.) Sedentary meaning they are living a normal, but inactive life (not meaning absolute immobility.)
If I did not eat anything at all, let’s estimate my burn would go down to maybe 2600-2650 since I would no longer be processing food. Additionally after 60 hours my metabolic rate would start to show evidence of decreasing, so even if the thermic effect of food didn’t reduce me to 2600 the reduction in metabolism from starvation would. I think it’s fair to estimate 2650 a day over a 7 day period for an overweight person roughly corresponding to my size if they were sedentary and not eating anything. That is only 5.3 lbs of weight loss in a week.
The human body is more efficient than most might assume, and if you’re an overweight person going on a crash starvation diet I think it would be highly unlikely you could burn 1000 additional calories purely from exercise per day, which is about how much you would need on top of the 2650 to actually burn 1 lbs a day. Not impossible, but unlikely. Note that is 1,000 calories in addition to the calories you expend to fuel your body processes (BMR) and your calories doing the low intensity actions of daily life (walking in from the parking lot, perhaps taking the stairs and et cetera.) Not just 1,000 calories on top of BMR.
In any case, I was specifically talking about individuals who are on the first week of a diet. Not people doing a 7 day fast, but someone who has switched from a McMuffin for breakfast to a bowl of oatmeal, and from going out to eat lunch to a tuna sandwich, and pizza for dinner being switched for grilled chicken breast and veggies. Yeah, that person did break into their fat reserves that first week, but not at the level of 8 lbs.
Also of note my energy expenditure numbers were just a representation of the work equivalent of 8 lbs of fat, I wasn’t saying that to actually lose 8 lbs of fat in a week you would have to run 5 marathons, that was just the amount of stored energy people are talking about losing in a week as though it’s not even hard and can be obtained with a 30% calorie reduction and a switch to diet soft drinks.
As I said, a days fast isn’t going to kill you. I do believe it can cause mild euphoria in some individuals and as has been mentioned humans didn’t always have access to food stores.
I have not stated that a day’s fast is bad for you or really stated anything medically about a day’s fast. What is woo is the detoxification effects of a day’s fast. I’m not saying it is woo that a day’s fast will make you feel better or might help you lose weight, I’m saying it’s woo that it detoxifies you.
Your body is designed to detoxify itself, it has organs that do this. If you believe you’ve ingested a harmful chemical or element then you need to go to poison control.
I also mentioned that I’m aware of the life extension studies that have shown positive results from caloric restriction. However, I also said that I don’t believe any studies have shown that fasting is the only way to reap those benefits. I’ve read studies in which people eat 1200 a day and studies in which they eat a normal amount one day and a very low amount or a complete fast the next. So fasting isn’t necessary to reap the theoretical benefits of caloric restriction. (Note that while I’m aware of the studies, I say theoretical because I honestly think the book is still genuinely out on whether or not caloric restriction, over the long span of a human life, would have the consistent effects suggested by the studies.)
For a formerly overweight person, my biggest problem is I do not have proper control over what I eat. I lost 65 lbs not because I developed intrinsic ability to control what I eat, but because I developed a system that replaced what did not exist in me.
I have many friends who don’t feel hungry so they won’t eat birthday cake at work, and they can “take it or leave it” with a bag of chips, maybe getting a handful and not wanting anymore. Before my weight loss there was never a bag of chips I couldn’t or wouldn’t finish in one setting. I always ordered an appetizer and I had no problem keeping the dishwashers busy at a buffet.
What’s weird is I never really associated overeating with “pleasure” it was just something that happened. I wouldn’t even consciously think about it, I’d just open a bag of chips and then look down seemingly moments later and notice a full family sized bag of chips was gone (only a slight exaggeration!)
I’ve known and do know people who seem able to naturally and without effort regulate what they eat. They eat when they feel the need and then don’t when they don’t. Me, I can always eat. If someone asks me out to dinner right after I ate dinner, I’d be fine with going. I just was always like that. For me, I had to develop a strict system so that I no longer relied on my instincts when it came to eating, but instead relied on my system. Even after losing 65 lbs and now having a healthy BMI I still do not have any internal regulation of what I eat. I rely on my personalized system to keep what I eat in check. Since I do regular weight monitoring I keep yo-yo weight gains under control by aggressively responding at the slightest indication my weight trend is going up. However, I’m still guilty of going to cookouts and when I get a few beers in me and don’t keep my system in mind but instead start chatting and thinking about other things, I’ll have downed 2 bratwursts and 2 italian sausages and a turkey leg.
People like me have a hard time controlling what they eat even when they aren’t hungry at all, even when they are in fact full. I think that a day’s fast can do enough to someone such as myself (especially when I was actively trying to lose weight) that it can lead to very bad rebound days. I know some people who do the daily fasting thing regularly, and most of them are very fit, active people. I think they’ve always been fit and active and I think people like that are better suited to fast without having rebound days (since their “normal” is well, just normal food consumption.) Someone like me, my normal is overeating, so I don’t want normal days, I want abnormal days, which for me means eating at maintenance levels.
One year during a year-long Spiritual Thing, I did four three day fasts and a two week modified fast (which really wasn’t calorically restricted, but was clear liquids only.) They were pretty intense, especially because I do have a complicated emotional history with food and weight. Definitely worth it for what I was working on, and spiritually useful.
For the last year and a half or so, I’ve not been eating until about 1 or 2 in the afternoon on most days. I’ve never felt better. I lost ~50 pounds in the first two months (yes, you read that right) and have kept it off without struggle, which is pretty amazing for me. Of course, I also fell in Twoo Wuv, so that might have something to do with it! 
I spent years believing magazines that told me breakfast was the most important meal of the day and that eating breakfast is important for weight loss and thin people eat breakfast and blah blah blah. I forced myself to eat, even though eating early makes me both nauseous and ravenous the rest of the day. :smack:
Then I decided to try listening to my body. Waddaya know, I feel better and look better and move better and have a better cholesterol level when I don’t eat breakfast and make lunch late. Not saying it’s for everyone, but it’s what MY body needs.
Ehhh, wait, I don’t really think that’s the kind of fasting people are talking about – it’s like 14 hours, right? That’s more like meal displacement (Muslims do the same thing for a month during Ramadan – big feast at night, maybe pre-dawn meal, then nothing during the day). I’m not denigrating the religious version of fasting or saying it’s easy, just noting that in the context of the OP, I’m assuming “fasting” implies a full 24 hours (at least) abstention.
Not only teh Dangerous!!!, but Irresponsible!!!
I suppose it’s possible to be so ignorant as to think not eating for a day could be dangerous, but how on earth could anyone think that it’s “irresponsible”?
Are there negative implications for the rest of society that I’m unaware of if I skip a few meals?
No, Surreal - if you skip a few meals that’s dieting; if you fast…that’s a slow death to somewhere. Or something.
From a wrestlers POV fasting does actually work. Let me explain. See I wrestled 125 and everyyear before the season I would come in at roughly 135. After a few weeks of pre-season conditioning I would naturally lose a few pounds and get down to 131-132. Then to get the rest of the weight off I simply fasted (or ate significantly less) until I got there. Rest of the season I ate whatever I wanted and my weight did not balloon back up. My body got used to that weight and it stuck. My abs showed a lot better too.
I’m a firm believer in being active and exercising aggressively to get the results you want. Everyone preaches Diet, Diet, Diet. But it’s not your diet. Eat whatever you want Burberry prepared to balance it out.
If you don’t believe me, look at any athlete (swimmers, hockey players, mma, wrestlers, runners, etc…). Do you think they have to micromanage their diets or do they just pretty much eat whatever?
You’re right about that.
It’s only very recently that we started bathing at least once per day, vaccinating babies, insisting that everyone should learn to read, and stopped bleeding people when they got the flu, too. In the past, when people went a day or two at a time without food, it was out of necessity (or some stupidass superstition) not because it was good for them.
You should, of course, feel free to eat however you want. If you don’t feel hungry, don’t eat. No skin off my back. But saying it’s a good idea for people to deliberately deny themselves necessary regular nutrition because idiots from the stupid ages did it all the time, and you happen to feel fine, is in fact, dangerous and irresponsible. People need to eat food regularly. No, they don’t need to graze continuously through the day, or eat exactly three meals, or whatever. But fasting is stupid and not healthy.
I’m still waiting for an explanation to support your notion that fasting (yourself) is somehow “irresponsible.”
While we’re at it, let’s see some citations for the notion that fasting is “dangerous.” In the linked thread above I posted several studies that demonstrate that there are health benefits to fasting.
"Necessary’ is a powerful word. I’d be prepared to define that term.
It’s not ‘necessary’. You might have a longshot at pulling out some reference that shows it is ‘better’, per se, than not fasting, but necessary? That’s got to be a stretch.
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I’ve read a bit about the science of fasting. It’s not at all harmful for most human bodies, and can come along with many benefits.
However, going without solid food for very long doesn’t agree with me at all, and I have no desire to punish myself with a migraine, nausea, and generally feeling terrible by attempting it. I guess I’ve never done a real fast (nothing but water for an extended period); closest I’ve gotten was a ‘clear liquid fast’ for a couple days before medical procedures. Even though I was allowed apple and white grape juice and Gatordade, I wanted to die by after lunch time the first day, and I felt horrific the entire time. Euphoria? Hah! For me, it might have something to do with the fact that I don’t have a lot of body fat, have a very fast metabolism and eat a lot, and have mild hypoglycemia. I know many people who fast regularly, and feel great doing it. Many of them have some extra weight, and I think if you have more of your own stores to burn it’s going to be easier on the body.
Wow. I posted the OP, then saw no replies after a few hours. Then my life got busy and now look.
All I can say is that the fasting has been working for me. Doing water only one day a week I feel great, and the weight loss I have achieved has persisted. I’ve done some hikes that a year ago would be exhausting; now I do them and have energy left over at the end.
As far as fasting being irresponsible, I guess it is as long as you consider a vegetarian diet shiny.