The US insisted on including South Korea and Japan in any talks, but as soon as North Korea started reprocessing spent fuel rods, Bush acquiesced to talks that included only the US, China and North Korea. Hardly “multilateral”. Any way you look at it, the “pygmy” is reeming Bush up the ass, and he doesn’t know what to do about it, short of blowing the whole world to kingdom come.
Oh please. This has nothing to do with the comment at hand. I write a two paragraph post, and you can’t comment except on one silly point. Canada isn’t going to invade us either. Get over it already.
I don’t know if you realize how much opinion about America has dropped in the world. It really is a pity if more of my countrymen spend more of their time logged in the SDMB instead of listening that clown you have for president…
Just in case it need clarification my last post was directed to Conflict of Interest.
Estilicon, I think you’d be surprised about how many Americans realize Bush looks like a like a “clown” (I prefer cowboy), to the international audience. Give us some credit.
Well now, let’s see…
[ul][li] American journalist Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and decapitated in January, 2002.[/li]
[li] Two Israelis were killed by an Egyptian immigrant at the El Al ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport on July 5, 2002.[/li]
[li] An American soldier was killed in a bombing in the Philippines in October, 2002.[/li]
[li] Three U.S. aid workers were killed in Yemen in December, 2002.[/li]
[li] A Filipino American businessman and his aide were kidnapped on Mindoro in the Philippines in December, 2002.[/li]
[li] An American contractor was killed in Kuwait on January 21.[/li]
[li] An American was killed in a bombing at Davao City Airport in the Philippines on March 4.[/li]
[li] Three oil workers, including an American and a Canadian, were killed on an oil rig in Yemen on March 18.[/ul][/li]
That, of course, is not by any means a comprehensive list.
You may also be interested in the State Department’s Patterns of Global Terrorism 2002, in which Secretary Powell states,
Yep, it’s a great, safe time to be an American, all right. I doubt Spite is going to put on a Stars and Stripes tee shirt and take a bike tour from Morocco to Indonesia any time soon.
Well now, Sofa, if my son walks by some kids smoking pot and smells the reefer as he passed, make me a failure to keep him off of drugs?
I never said they had stopped, and to presume I did is preposterous. How many WTC, Cole’s or Kenya’s have happened? And by sayiong that I am not saying they will not happen on his watch, but for the fact that our president has either caught those responsible or dramatically decreased their abilites to do so shows a demonstrable effect of his current path. And your hand wringing and vitrio does not change that.
And while I may not be foolish enough to do such, I would not be cowardly enough to claim I was Canadian or hate Bush as some have proferred on these boards.
light strand
No one I have ever debated with, except those deemed as uninformed, ever claimed that Saddam was weapons free. The whole world admitted it, barring Saddam himself.
If Bush got 99% of the vote and did the same things Saddam has done to his own people, fuckin A.
It appears that the neo-con view advocating a strong assertion of American dominance in the world is in the ascendant. I fear this is ultimately short-sighted. We seem determined, after fifty years of nuclear threat, to enforce a world order where we cannot be threatened. This is a chimera. The nuclear genie is fifty years old, the technology is commonplace, any country that can afford a couple of graduate students studying abroad can build Da Bomb. If Pakistan can do, so can Gabon. One way or the other, the era of war is ending. We will have peace, even if it is peace of a blasted lunar landscape.
It is not possible to premptively remove every threat. If we spend our treasure and our children in pursuit of this fantasy, we will be the premier collossal idiots of all time.
Worse still is the wasted opportunity, the chance to finally live up to the revolutionary dream of our birth, to lead, truly lead, rather than vainly seeking to horde our power.
Is the UN a vain and feeble enterprise? Of course, institutions born out of optimism frequently are. But then, what was ever so feeble and vain as 13 former colonies boastfully declaring a nation of free men, who own no sovereign? At the time, it was ridiculous, absurd, impractical. And remained so for many years.
What would be the best thing that could happen right now? For America to demand something, anything, and meet cooperative international resistance, and then, to back down!. Show that we put the concerns of the world above our own, and they will look upon us as leaders, not bullies.
Primus inter partes, first amongst equals, is a far better motto than oderint dum metuant. (Let them hate us, so long as they fear us.) In the entire history of mankind, no group of people has ever had as much power to free humanity, or doom humanity, as we.
Spite, it sure didn’t take you long to accuse those of us who don’t support the war of being Anti-American.
What do you think of Bali, or the Kenya airline missile attack? I suppose since numerous Americans weren’t killed, then these weren’t real terrorist attacks.
For those of us who are “uninformed” exactly where are those tons of WMD that were directly threatening my safety in the DFW metro area? In fact, the treat was so imminent that I haven’t seen my Marine husband since February.
Speedy and safe return, Light. Had my way, he never would have left. Thats my idea of supporting our troops. I only wish it were more popular.
Funny elucidator, I’ve been thinking about that Caligula quote since I opened this thread.
It might be worthy to note that Caligula’s own army assassinated him, and the Romans rejoiced.
I have no reserves about calling those that I deem anti-American as such. But where did I say what you said I said?
**
Puh-lease, my grandmother invented the guilt trip,hyperbole, rhetorical, strawman. You will have to do better than that. Bali and Kenya airlines are not under the perview of the POTUS, now are they? And as pro Israel I am, I sure as hell would not like it if the US decides to invade the OT’s to take out suicide bombers.
The million dollar question. Where were you asserting, along with Iraq, that they did not have WMD before march to rest of the world?
There were several threads on these boards at the time trying to get those like you to admit such. I think the main gist of them was to say that if you do not think they have WMD you should be oposed to the war and sanctions, along with all of the resolutions against Iraq.
Balderdash, sir! Tommyrot!
I didn’t know, didn’t say I knew, had to guess, I’d have said he probably did.
GeeDubya said he knew. Not suspected, not guessed, knew. And not only that Saddam bin Laden had these things, but that he was a direct and immediate threat to us as a result.
The right has consistently insisted that if it can lower the bar down to whether or not he possessed things we’d rather he didn’t, then it can justify this military adventure. Utter rot. And now it appears that even that flimsy excuse is so much crappucino, that an Evil Old Bugger like Saddam is telling the truth and we are the belligerant, hair-trigger cowboys! How perfectly disgusting: the monster speaks the truth, and we lie.
If he had dared to use such on us, Baghdad would have been a smoking, glowing hole in the Godforsaken Desert inside of an hour. And the entire world knew that. All we have proven is that the mightiest military force ever isn’t enough to make us feel secure. Which is just plain chickenshit in my book.
Thanks elucidator. Fortunately although he was activated, he wasn’t deployed. He’s been lingering in CA for the last several months. He was deployed during the first Gulf war in the reign of George I, so this wasn’t terribly unexpected. But I digress for my “I hate America!” stance. America sucks! Screw the Troops! Die Die Die!
Now Spite, exactly how was a US military ship in the port of Aden, Yemen or the Embassy in Kenya under Clinton’s control any more than a night club in Bali is under Bush’s, or a Marine Corps barracks in Lebanon under Reagan’s.
It seems to me that when you made this claim: " I would not be cowardly enough to claim I was Canadian or hate Bush as some have proferred on these boards" you were pretty much saying that we were un-American enough to claim Canadian citizenship (how you could ferret out the truth of this statement is beyond me).
As for my having to back up the claim of WMD, where the hell did that enter the argument? If a president sends our men off to war under a premise of WMD it better be true! The “well it all worked out OK” reasoning is bullshit. What if it hadn’t? Do you suppose the folks who got loved ones back in body bags thought it went well?
This thread shows my incredible telekinetic powers. Read it and weep.
Just because you think so doesn’t mean many do. Please cite your satistical sourse or stop the liberal rhetoric.
And elucidator, all I was doing was responding the the uniformed opinion given by light strand. So chill.
Conflict, my post was not directed to you specificly, or even with you in mind.
Chill yourself.
Have you looked at the polls lately? I think GWB’s approval rating is somewhere around 75%.
What huh? Conflict I have so many opinions that are uniformed, that you’re just going to have to clarify it.
What would you like a statistical analysis on? Bush is a witch? I can’t prove it, but I suspect it. That Canada is going to attack us? Just look at the smirking, all gay marrying and high, they’re up to something in Great White North. That Bush didn’t get a plurality? Start a thread on it, it’s irreverent to the post. That many Americans think Bush acts like a cowboy? Well, let’s see, there’s me, then my there’s my dogs, and my Sister-in-law, and elucidator. Shall I go on?
By the way. Check out sailor’s post for [voiceover]The rest of the story[/voiceover]
MLS are you suggesting that even those who approve of the way he’s handling thing are completely unaware of his international persona?
I have trouble believing that Americans are that stupid. I just think they either approve of the cowboy act, or they don’t care.
Or maybe they just aren’t as informed (Prejudiced?) as you are.
I have not conducted a personal survey and can’t pretend to see into anyone else’s mind, but: I think a fairly large number of Americans (a) don’t think it’s a “cowboy” act, or a “clown” act and/or (b) are caring less and less whether people in certain countries think like us or not and/or © are pleased to have someone who says what he means and means what he says – even if he’s not as articulate by far as some of us would like him to be. When he stood by the WTC rubble and said to the police & firemen & construction workers, “I hear you! And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear from all of us real soon!”
a large number of us felt very good about that. Some of us took that attack REAL personal, and will support whatever it takes to kick the sh!t out of anybody who thinks about helping anyone to do anything like that again.
Do I wish he had the oratorical gifts of Winston Churchill? You bet I do. Did I vote for him? No. Am I glad he won the election? You bet.