Fair enough.
Spit-take! 
You know what would be totally awful? If we undertake her Green Agenda, start putting money and intelligence to work on it, and it happens? And we enter a new age of cheap, abundant and green energy?
And then it turns out we were wrong, that it wasn’t really necessary! What a disaster, huh? Could go back, I suppose, resume dumping shit into our rivers and poison into our air. But by then, the investing class will be invested in Green, rather than Exxon, and are likely to resist! And there we’ll be, surrounded by healthy grandchildren with actual futures, and no way to get back to the Age of Shit! Alas! Woe is us!
Take solar energy, for instance! We start leaching energy from the sun, how long before it runs out! Fucking hippies, never think about stuff like that!
That is ok, but missing the point that you (not Mike) did the equivalent in that post of dismissing an expert for using some hyperbole (that does not change the numbers) and not being able to dismiss his main subject or issue, it was like dismissing planetary mechanics just because Velikowski found some bits that Astronomers and Cosmologists got seemingly wrong early on.
Pics of you swinging a dead cat or it didn’t happen.
I didn’t listen to the podcast, is part of the Green New Deal swinging dead cats, windmill-style, as a source of renewable energy/to replace fossil fuels ?
I have mixed feelings about AOC. I am delighted that she is inspiring young progressives! OTOH, I wish she did better fact-checking.
But to be credible, any criticism of AOC should be accompanied with a disclaimer like “Of course every single Republican is a despicable liar who knows far less about our problems and their solutions than this young lady.” Who was it, the Republican Chairman of the Science Committee who pompously brought a glass of ice water to a hearing as proof that ice melting doesn’t raise ocean levels? :smack:
American voters are low-information and it reflects very badly on the detractors of this young ex-bartender to focus on minutiae instead of the lying scum from the Kleptocrat Party who are gleefully stealing trillions and laughing at Democrats tripping over their own feet.
On the other matter:
(1) I often watch YouTubes at faster-than-normal speed. And sometimes the visual that goes with the audio is useful. (It may even help with the focus needed to follow at high speed.)
(2) A worthy podcast should have a transcript.
(3) I access 'Net on my laptop, not in my car. There are good reasons I wouldn’t listen to a podcast in my car even if that were convenient.
(4) The suggestion to watch a podcast is reminiscent of Sam Stone’s request years ago that we listen to several hours of Milton Friedman YouTubes before he would deign to discuss with us. :smack:
(5) Kimstu touched on some of the flaws of the podcast suggestion in his post that begins:
Fucking leave Tibbles out of this.
In case anybody cares, early polling of the Green New Deal is pretty damn positive: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/421765-poll-majorities-of-both-parties-support-green-new-deal
I have seen AOC make a number of missteps and mention some inaccuracies.
What I have not seen her do, when confronted with a mistake or inaccuracy, is to double down on it. It seems that, she is young, and she has much to learn, but she seems willing to learn it.
So let’s take BigT’s claim as a given: that AOC’s overstatements and inaccuracies do more good politically in the short term than the harm they do by undermining Democrats’ credibility with swing voters in swing states (who are still very powerful in a hyperpartisan era, due to how closely divided the country is). I don’t necessarily believe that, but let’s assume it’s true for the sake of argument.
What happens to those idealistic voters when ten years have passed and Democrats have not fulfilled their pie-in-the-sky promises? Don’t we end up worse off than before, with the next generation being even more disillusioned? I just don’t think this is a sustainable political path.
If nothing else happens, having a member of congress with a large audience calling for this kind of thing shifts the Overton Window, which has been flying to the right this last decade or so because of the sheer mass of right wing demagoguery.
I didn’t transcribe it, but the podcast segment also includes some snark and silliness from Pesca about the Overton Window.
I don’t believe we should play fast and loose with the facts to move that “window”. We need to make our brand the one that doesn’t use “truthiness”.
You must not be aware of the issue at hand in full, we will all lose. Not just Democrats. The Republicans will get still more of the blame since it is clear that they will drag solutions as long as possible thanks to being beholden to fossil fuel companies and holding the idiot ball. Historically speaking, it will be like when the Republicans stuck with prohibition solutions way beyond their expatriation date.
Of course, to be a bit of a stickler, I have to point out here that this is not an issue that should depend on partisanship, how it became a partizan issue in weaponized form was reported By Frontline back in 2012:
The Democrats winning the House was one important piece to start countering the fall into ignorance.
And sorry for the ones that complain about videos, but that documentary is needed to be seen (or read the transcript) by the ones that are not aware of how corporations and interest groups discredited even business solutions to the issue like cap-n-trade, and led groups like the tea party into twisting the GOP into a willful ignorant party. And how the GOP became and remains the weakest link for many of the solutions that are being proposed.
Anyway, her voters obviously knew about her beliefs when they voted for her, so she’s saying exactly what they want to hear. That’s being a politician!
Darn the auto fill, that is not supposed to be expatriation, but expiration date.
Ah, shit. I just called her “AOC” over in the “Trump Twitter” thread.
Also, maybe it’s time to change the title of THIS thread, because only about 10% of the posts have been about the Green New Deal.
…he says, after 7 consecutive posts on GND. 
December 17? Thats pretty early all right.
I’ll get you a nice speaker for your birthday great-granda. if you can stay alive that long sheeesh,
I kid i kid. Just snarking. I dont know you.