AOTC - Is there any excuse?

Cafe Society
21

Well, just to provide my dos centavos worth:

I saw AOTC last night, and I absolutely, unreservedly loved it. Best movie I’ve seen in years!

I realize the acting was pretty wooden, and the dialog rather stilted, but ya know what? It worked for me. I mean, the characters are part of a pretty stilted society anyway, and it doesn’t bother me that the social interactions of different classes in such a stratified, ancient society are somewhat reserved. Yeah, that’s making excuses, I guess—but what it comes down to is, it didn’t bother me.

Natalie Portman was so heart-wrenchingly beautiful, I’d watch her read the back of a cereal box. And her heroics in the latter part of the movie reminded me so much of Leia, I could definitely believe I was seeing her mother.

And I thought the guy who played Anikin was a perfect choice. Very tall and dark, with a deep voice…it’s Darth Vader!

And the movie looked cool as hell. Yoda absolutley kicked ass. His light saber fight scene alone was worth the price of admission. The battle scene at the end was awesome. The ranks of the clones filing into their star cruisers was a magnificent scene, a foreshadowing of things to come…

The political intrigue was fascinating to me also. The whole rise of the Empire is really being fleshed out. And incidentally, that is why I forgive TPM for being such a relatively crappy movie—it’s sole function was to setup the background for the later films, and with some glitz thrown in to keep the kiddies entertained.

Okay, I’m rambling—I may come up with some more thought-out comments later, but I just wanted to get my impressions down. The upshot is, I loved it, and I really don’t care if anyone else did or not. (Personally, I think it’s just “hip” to bash Star Wars. As Kirkland says, I think most people who say they hated the movie went in intending to hate it.)

22

Oh, one more thing, and I’ll shut up (for now). Okay, actually two more things…

One thing I did find rather annoying was the C3P0 comic relief schtick. That was pretty stupid.

And regarding Jar-Jar: I thought it was great that we now have a real reason to dislike him, apart from him being just generally annoying—he was the patsy that Palpatine got to propose the army creation act. And the naive, trusting look on his face was very well done. Hopefully at some point in the future, he’ll realize how thoroughly duped he was. (Evil chuckle)

23

If economic recessions tend to push design and aesthetics to the back of the priority list, why do you note “grand-looking architecture” from the 1930’s? :smiley:

24

Wooden dialogue, terrible acting, spectacular special effects, a convoluted storyline. All this I’ve come to expect. But one thing continues to bother me about AOTC (and it bothered me about ROTJ, as well): The people – ordinary, non-Force-imbued people – who fly these space ships have ungodly reflexes. Witness Jango Fett’s pursuit of Obi-Wan in AOTC, or Lando’s trip into the innards of Death Star II: Son of Death Star, or even Solo’s foray into the asteroid field in ESB. I suppose I could grant that Jedi types could fly that well, because they’re precognitive. But dadGUM these folks react quicker than spit. That bugs me. The AOTC fight between Jango and Obi-Wan, in particular, was bad, because they were flying around rocks in spaces where there weren’t even any spaces.

25

“If economic recessions tend to push design and aesthetics to the back of the priority list, why do you note “grand-looking architecture” from the 1930’s”

I have no idea of what he was thinking, but the GDepression didn’t hit until after the 30’s hit. And it certainly loosened by 39’. Or he was just mistaken. In any event, he does have a point.

26

No, I saw downbylaw’s name and thought I’d comment.

I have a bootleg copy of Down By Law, but I’d really like to get it on DVD.

Getting back to the OP:

That sounds a lot like the guy who buys the boat, the motorhome, the Lincoln Navigator, etc. because he has the money to do so and he wants everyone to know.

Sure, it’s Lucas’s right to do anything he wants to with his money. But that doesn’t make him a good filmmaker. I liked THX 1138 and American Graffiti. I liked *Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. I liked Return of the Jedi until the Ewoks showed up. (Oh, and except for that bizarre blue elephant thing in the band.)

I think Lucas has gotten too close to his creation. I think he should back off and let someone else do the writing and directing. I think that would make the series much better. But it’s Lucas’s “vision”. Even if he executes it poorly, it’s his “baby”.

27

Because of an assload of government money poured into the WPA.

28

Well many many times I have read on the board how a ‘studio’ screwed up a movie because obviously some team of people added this and that and had test screenings.
And that is true that you can screw up a film that way. But if you want to have film be ‘art’ and have the director as the sole artists than AotC is a good film because Lucas gets exactly what he wants. True independant film hardly exists any more and I dare say all of those films have artistic compromises, made either due to investor monkeying around or lack of funds.

AotC had neither of those problems. It’s problem is named George. And the box office is showing how he is failing to connect to his audience.

So the op was is there any excuse for a bad movie nowadays and I was trying to address that question.

So I should have said.

Yes there are plenty of reasons a movie will turn out ‘bad’. Probably more reasons for it to be ‘bad’ then ‘good’.

29

That’s a strange use of the word “failing”.

30

Yeah, I’d like to fail to the tune of $80 million in three days. I’d settle for a tenth of that, actually.

And to fend off the argument that the first-week box-office figures are always inflated because of hype and that people feel obligated to go see Star Wars movies: The apparently much-hated “Phantom Menace” set first-week sales records when it was released on DVD, and ended up sixth overall in DVD sales revenue for 2001.

That’s a weird definition of “failure.”

31

Fail as in less than last time.

A 21% drop from Saturday to Sunday.

Of course lets see what next weekend does.

32

I want to introduce you to something called “facts and figures,” Zebra, because they’re sort of important when you make assertions.

  1. “The Phantom Menace” opened in 1999, for its first Friday-to-Sunday period, with $64,810,970. Adjusting that to 2002 dollars, that’s $70,141,742. “AOTC” opened with $80,027,814 in its first Friday-to-Sunday period. That’s $10 million more from where I sit.

  2. 21 percent? Big deal. Record breaking Spider-Man dropped 27% from Saturday to Sunday the weekend it opened.

  3. “AOTC” just reported box office for Monday of $10.7 million, only a little behind the $11.4 million that “Spider-Man” made on its first Monday (a record for a non-holiday Monday–that makes “AOTC” #2 for that record).

  4. AOTC’s Friday-to-Saturday rise was 28%. Spider-Man’s was 10.7% its first weekend. TPM’s was 32%. So I guess that’s “less.”

  5. AOTC’s Sunday-to-Monday drop was 56%. Spider-Man’s was 65% its first Monday. TPM’s was 50%. So that’s also “less,” in a good way.

Do you have any actual figures you’d like to add to the discussion, or just speculation? Because I’ll bet you the DVD of your choice that AOTC ends up outgrossing TPM by about 5-6% in adjusted dollars.

33

I want to introduce you to something called “facts and figures,” Zebra, because they’re sort of important when you make assertions.

  1. “The Phantom Menace” opened in 1999, for its first Friday-to-Sunday period, with $64,810,970. Adjusting that to 2002 dollars, that’s $70,141,742. “AOTC” opened with $80,027,814 in its first Friday-to-Sunday period. That’s $10 million more from where I sit.

  2. 21 percent? Big deal. Record breaking Spider-Man dropped 27% from Saturday to Sunday the weekend it opened.

  3. “AOTC” just reported box office for Monday of $10.7 million, only a little behind the $11.4 million that “Spider-Man” made on its first Monday (a record for a non-holiday Monday–that makes “AOTC” #2 for that record).

  4. AOTC’s Friday-to-Saturday rise was 28%. Spider-Man’s was 10.7% its first weekend. TPM’s was 32%. So I guess that’s “less.”

  5. AOTC’s Sunday-to-Monday drop was 56%. Spider-Man’s was 65% its first Monday. TPM’s was 50%. So that’s also “less,” in a good way.

Do you have any actual figures you’d like to add to the discussion, or just speculation? Because I’ll bet you the DVD of your choice that AOTC ends up outgrossing TPM by about 5-6% in adjusted dollars.

34

Not wanting to get into a urination match, here, but in my opinion Spider-Man’s figures are much more impressive that AOTC’s. AOTC has the benefit of 25 years’ worth of movie fandom pushing it. If Lucas tapped into his fan base properly, AOTC should have no trouble being the top-grossing movie of the summer, regardless of the competition. At this point, it doesn’t appear that will happen (although much can change between now and the end of the summer).

35

But Sauron, Spiderman has around 40 years of comic fandom to draw on. Plus all the TV cartoons. I don’t think Star Wars has any edge there.

36

Well, to be fair, Spider-Man has 40 years of comic-fan momentum, has never had a really successful screen or TV adaptation, had two of the hottest (in every sense of the word) young stars in Hollywood, and had a cult-favorite director at the helm. Still, its box office performance is nothing short of astounding (avoiding the obvious pun, there), and I think it won’t be matched or exceeded this summer or even next summer.

Each “Star Wars” movie has been the top-grossing movie of the year in which it was released–while AOTC might not win the summer, it might win the year. OTOH, word has it that LFL and Fox are planning the DVD release for late November, so who knows? Still, it’s going to gross more than TPM. And Zebra’s statement that “the box office is showing” its failure is demonstrably incorrect.

37

Deep voice? Do you speak in the register of birds, perhaps?

I think the reason why so many Dopers are disappointed in Eps I & II is because they were kids when they saw their first SW movie, and it blew them away. They retained the excitement all the way to adulthood, but by that time their standards had changed. No longer are laser guns and explosions cool…there has to be some artistry and intelligence there as well.

Plus, Lucas is no longer hungry. Everybody knows an artist’s best motivation is starvation.

38

That the whole series has had bad, stilted and cliched dialogue? :smiley:

Go back and watch the first trilogy! What horrible dialogue, but did we care? Nawww.

39

Depends on what sort of underwear I’m wearing.

:shrug: I dunno, it seemed kind of deep to me.

I was a kid too. I was ten when SW came out, and I still think laser guns and explosions are cool. :cool:

I ain’t above a bit of lowbrow fun now and again!:slight_smile:

40

Obviously the OP doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Making reflecting surfaces in CG takes all of a few minutes, and can even be rendered in realtime.

I disagree. The script had a single overriding plot (that wasn’t fully revealed until about the halfway point, and then it was gradually revealed) that linked various subplots together. The weakest aspect was the “Anakin falling in love” bit, but even that succeeded - in my opinion - due to Lucas deciding not to make it a typical Hollywood “Romeo and Juliet” romance. Padme developed feelings for Anakin primarily because, I think, she pitied him.

And bad dialogue? I thought most of it was brilliant. The only painful dialogue to hear was Anakin’s crap about “You’ve grown… more beautiful”. But that perfectly fit the character of a socially-awkward teenager. Weren’t you ever in High School? Hell, I still remember the first time I asked a girl out… the shit I said made Anakin’s lines look like Cassanova.

Go watch the movie again. Things WERE quite dirty and grungy. It’s just that for a good chunk of the opening (the Coruscant speeder chase), you couldn’t SEE any of the scenery (except for windows). While the Kaminoan planet seemed to have everything spit-polished, that complex seemed like the rough equivalent of a hotel combined with a science lab. You ever seen grime and mildew in the Hilton? Or a highly-fragile science lab?

Go re-watch the movie, and pay close attention to the Geonosian planet. If you think THAT place looked “perfectly shiny and clean”, you’re insane.

Provide examples. Anakin’s love lines? Social awkwardness. Yoda? He’s always had weird speaking mannerisms.

I think what’s going on is that, upon hearing something that you normally don’t hear, the trend is to automatically say “Bad dialogue!” instead of thinking “Why did he say that?” If you did the latter instead of the former, the answers would be quite obvious.