Apathy and Indifference:::

Great Debates
21

lmao… People are so naive. We like to believe that everything is as it is percieved. Meatros would have been one of the last to accept that the world wasnt flat… heh

SO many Hands are manipulating things behind the scenes… what Dan Rather tells you at night is about 40% blurred 25% lie and 35% truth.

http://www.projectfreedom.cng1.com/images/levels_of_knowledge.gif

http://www.projectfreedom.cng1.com/images/levels_of_knowledge.gif

These are the areas that need to be manipulated to have total control… now when you have money… or create the money… you can buy ANYTHING you wish… including the media…

I would rather be a free thinker and seek the truth, instead of being a sheep and buying everything they tell me.

:::Jacksen9 great quote…

Why do we need people not to be apathetic?

Well not only do we need people to care about the issues in the world, but people need to be informed. If I hadnt started these couple threads that I have, maybe someone out there, wouldnt have found this information out.

At first, I thought the same as the majority of you think of me… I thought the person telling me this stuff was a loon. I read alot, I read the paper daily… I had NEVER heard of this stuff. But I dove in and did some research…and the connections and “coincidences” and the theories piece together too logically, too perfectly. It blew my mind.

I used to not care. I used to not vote. Could care less… But the more I found out, the more free I truly felt, because I can see through the lies now.

You see things like Bush Pushes For New Powers as a headline, and you see he wants to use military to transfer money from unknown sources without Senate approval, what kind of shit is that? You see the trade zones of the world being broke down, as the worlds economy slowly becomes one.

They have us by the balls. And since I have found out the information, I feel it is my patriotic duty to be a Paul Revere. I dont throw all the resources out there, because Id like to see old age…

Too many people before me, have been “suicided” for knowing too much. I dont know enough to be suicided …knocks on wood. But the writing is on the wall for those who seek the truth.

22

I think you are the one who is naive here, do you believe everything that is posted on the internet? I can find plenty of material that will support practically ANY lame conspiracy theory out there on. What you need to find is unbiased information, information that is coming from a group without an agenda.

You think this stuff is new? Think again. You sit there and think I would have been the last to know the earth was round keep in mind this: The people at Waco thought the same thing.
We’ll be all laughing at you while you’re putting on your nikes and drinking your coolaid while waiting for the saucers to pick you up.

I am serious about you needing to get help though, left unchecked these sorts of delusions can lead to major problems down the road.

23

Procacious:
I don’t think I was advocating imposing my beliefs on anyone else. It’s just that, for my standards to have any meaning at all, I have to believe in them. They’re called “convictions”, for that reason. But if I come across someone with conflicting standards- say, a racist- I believe it’s my moral obligation to try to convince the racist that he’s wrong. I can’t, in good conscience, “accept” and “respect” his beliefs. I have no way of imposing my beliefs on him, nor would I if I could. Unlike many governments and almost all universities, I don’t believe in “Thought Crimes.”

24

FYI. about 1/3 of what i have researched is from the internet.

So are you saying that the Federal Reserve Bank is actually Federal? And that they are only interested in what is best for US citizens? Or when money isnt federalized, but a private corporation, their is still NO possibility for corruption? And that all the signs they are giving us, are to be ignored?

What I want to do is to open a few peoples eyes, to the very possible and quite likely corruption in the upper government. If people like MEATROS wants to keep their eyes superglued shut to the possibilities.

“We the sheeple of the United States of America…”

25

Provide some quality information. ANY would be nice. Those shitty paranoid pictures do nothing to further your CRAZY assertions. You are opening NOBODY’S eyes when you provide no information or baised information.

I said none of the things you are attributing to me. Get the coolaid out of your eyes and reread my posts.

You smell of troll.

26

Ah. So, people are apathetic and indifferent because they aren’t doing anything about what jharek sees as the problem.

Some advice, jharek. Keep doing research on all of this, but keep an open mind. See how many sources you can find for each assertion you see made about the Federal Reserve, and whatever other conspiracy theory happens to come your way. See how many contradict each other.

See if you can verify the facts that the theories are based on. All the facts. See if the conclusions being drawn from these facts are reached logically.

And be prepared to accept what you find, even if you find that what you believe now is wrong.

27

Quite true; everyone is entitled to their beliefs and I respect that, and if somebody wishes to discuss the differences between their own beliefs and my own I am quite happy to do so. I’ll even accept their arguments if they have a valid point to make. And if their belief is so fundamentally opposite to my own that we cannot find any common ground I will agree to disagree with them.

However (or BUT if you are a cynic :wink: ), at some point you have to decide where to draw the line between being reasonable/responsible and being - as you say - ‘just plain nutty’.

A couple of quick examples (and they are examples only so please don’t flame me) could be:

Adolf Hitler - Chancellor of Germany: His basic belief (ignoring the world-domination part) was in having a country (Germany) which was strong and pure with few foreigners in it. Nothing wrong with that in concept, but it does NOT justify murdering over 6 million Jews and countless other people from other countries. That is taking the ideal of patriotism to the extreme!

Any terrorist organisation: Their basic beliefs are usually either religiously or politically (or both) driven, but the means to get their message over is the same - shoot, blow-up or murder someone in the Government / Cause / Regime etc. that they are opposed to (quite often killing innocent bystanders who can be casually passed off as ‘casualties of War’).

Now I could carry on and start (or most-likely continue) a thread about how over 99 per-cent of the worlds wars and conflicts are religion based and have over time become politically motivated too (my own personal belief that!). This would guarantee a flaming for me from all quarters and would be no bad thing either.

Why do I say that? Because, the fact that myself, along with everyone else who has replied to this thread, shows that we do have opinions and feelings about things. If we didn’t then this thread would be empty!

JHAREK - You may feel that there is a lot of indifference and apathy about, but trust me, when it counts, people will stand up and want to have their say. It just seems like most of the time they don’t care! :wink:

28

jharek, you provide the most interesting rants…
Personally, I think I’m quite jaded about a great deal of things of things-- and also quite passionate about others. Am I contributing to the “demise of society”? I doubt it. Besides, its not in the best interest of the Illuminati, or The Six, or whoever it is that monitors your phone calls and obscures the truth to allow society to decay irrevocably. If that happens, what would they do-- become an open ruling body? Shadow governments stay in the shadows for a reason, ya know.

29

[Eve eats another bon bon, kicks off one of her feathered slippers and sings]:

"I’m deep just like a chasm
I’ve no enthusiasm
I’m tired and uninspired.
I’m blasé.

My day is one of leisure
In which I search for pleasure.
I’m bored when I’m adored.
I’m blasé.

While reaching for the moon
And the stars up in the sky,
The simple things of normal life
Are slowly passing by.

I sleep, the sun is shining;
I wake, its time for dining.
There’s nothing new for me to do
I’m blasé."

30

Simonlb: I’m new to the Dope, but I think that would be a great thread. Eh, it’s probably been done.
I may have gotten off track, but my basic point was that if those of us WITH morals are apathetic and indifferent, the immoral among us will flourish.:frowning:

31

There have been times when a person’s opinion bothered me, but I saw that as a flaw in myself, rather than a flaw in them. To dislike a racist because he is prejudice is to be prejudice against racists. To do so is to be guilty of the very think you disapprove of. Speaking with the racist to learn why he has his beliefs and to perhaps even educate him on the truth is all well and good, but if you cannot chance his mind, at least accept his opinion. If you know his opinion is based on mistruths then accept that he has his opinion because he lacks some of the facts and/or is unwilling to believe some of these facts. This is how people of different religions get along. Each person tends to think that their religion is the right one (or at least more accurate than many), yet they accept that others think just the opposite.

I certainly respect your policy to defend your beliefs when someone opposes them (Great Debates would be a dull place if no one did this), but after the conversation is over try to respect not only their right to have their opinion, but that if you were in their shoes you would have the same “nutty” opinion as well. That is the way to stick to your beliefs while still respecting the beliefs of everyone else. (Though if you choose not to I will respect that too. :stuck_out_tongue: )

I suppose this is where our points of view differ. Morals are just opinions as far as I am concerned. I can listen to two people talk about the death of another individual. One person can tell me that it is the most righteous and moral act he could commit and another could tell me about how evil and immoral it is. Neither person is wrong, they just have opposite points of view on this issue. If those people with certain morals are apathetic and indifferent, then those people with different morals will flourish.

32

Sadly, you are correct. But at least these forums give people like us a chance to air our views and discuss topics and appreciate how others feel about the relevant topics. Provided it doesn’t get to fighting-talk then its good, harmless fun!:slight_smile:

33

Sadly, you are correct. But at least these forums give people like us a chance to air our views and discuss topics and appreciate how others feel about the relevant topics. Provided it doesn’t get to fighting-talk then its good, harmless fun!:slight_smile:

34

Whn I opened this thread, I thought it was gonna be a take on an old joke I heard back in -83. it’s probably an UL, but anyway:

TV interviewer to cvollege kid (my age group): “So what is worst in todays society - Ignorance or Apathy?”
Kid: “I don’t know and I don’t care.”

That was 19 years ago and to me, the world seems a better place today.

35

Procacious, I disagree with you so much I don’t even know where to begin, but I’ll try.

WTF? Prejudiced against racists? Damn right, proudly so. I’m not guilty of the “very thing I disapprove of” because the thing I disapprove of is ignorance. And Stupidity, and the resultant mistrust and amimosity that racism brings to all of us.

[sarcasm]Yes, all the various religions of the world are getting along just swimmingly, always have.[/sarcasm]

And the piece de resistance:

Are you serious? Or are you just trying to wind my chain? Look, I get that much of life is colored in shades of gray, but some things are black and white. Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, being stupid on purpose is wrong. I have no problem saying these things.

Your attitude suggests a lack of courage. If no one is ever “wrong”, but just has a different viewpoint than you, you absolve yourself of ever having to make a moral choice. That’s the coward’s way. If you think everyone’s opinions are valid, then you have no opinions of your own. What are you doing in Great Debates?

To get back to the thread, the kind of Apathy and Indifference you display, the reluctance to place a value on anything, is the kind of attitude that allows despots to thrive (see Germany in the 30’s). I don’t live in a world where Hitler’s viewpoint is just as valid as Ghandi’s, or where Britney Spears is as good as Elvis Costello.

36

So you are truly of the opinion that hating people that spread hate will make the world better? Having people oppose me always made me more determined. Now, I am not a racist, but I would assume the same would hold true for many of them. To try and convince a racist that his view is incorrect and that there is a better view out there is one thing. Making derogatory comments and doing other hateful things however, will make the racist more determined. If you talk to a person with different views as though he is your equal, you may be able to convince him. If you treat him like he is below you (i.e. you let your prejudice show) he is inclined to ignore you opinion entirely.

I was referring to the majority of people in America that do get along quite well with people of other religions. But those that do not get along just prove my point. Hating people that have views you cannot accept just leads to violence and more hate.

Take, for example, a child molester on death row. There are people that will tell you how “moral” it is to put him to death and people that will tell you how “amoral” it is to put him to death. Neither opinion is wrong. Both sides of the argument make good points. You can pick the side you like best, but to say that one side is better than the other is to assume that you know best. I am not arrogant enough to think that I know what is best for everyone. I believe in my right to make my own decisions for myself, but do not believe I have the right to make decisions for other people. They can use their own moral code to make those decisions. (I do acknowledge that complex societies must have a few laws to keep order, but the vast majority of decisions should be made by the individuals whose lives those decisions affect).

I have to make moral choices for myself, not for everyone else. To make moral choices for others is to take away their right to make their own moral choices. I think every person’s opinion is valid, but I do have opinions of my own as well. I do enjoy discussing these opinions in a debate and will even try to make them understand my point of view. If the debate ends in a disagreement however, I do not just declare that the other person is wrong and I am right. Without being omnipotent, I cannot possibly know whose opinion is the wiser. I favor my own because it is the wiser choice for my own life. But I am only one man and the other opinion may be the wiser choice for the other person’s life. Besides, no opinion can be wrong. Facts can be right or wrong, but opinions cannot.

I place strong value on the right of people to make their own moral decisions.

37

I am 15, and I would like to point out something: Not all teenagers drink and do drugs and have sex and are part of gangs. Some of us don’t drink, don’t use, abstain, and don’t like violence. Some of us get good grades and participate in extra-curriculars. Some of us can be pleasant to be around and are good people. And you know what? Us “good kids” are the majority. The news just shows you the bad ones. They’re the ones that make the headlines. So the next time you think of teens, think of all of us, not just the interesting ones.

38

Yes.

No, it’s called “having an opinion on the matter.”

That’s impossible.

Morally and intellectually, you have no balls.

39

Yes.

No, it’s called “having an opinion on the matter.”

That’s impossible.

Morally and intellectually, you have no balls. If it were my my “opinion” that the world would be a better place without you in it, would that be “valid”?

40

One can believe that anal sex is unpleasant, while another enjoys it. If I feel that anal sex is unpleasant does that mean I cannot find the other person’s opinion valid?

I debating this with you am I not?

I simply accept the fact that if I had lived your life, I would have your opinions. The odds that I am fortunate enough to have lived the perfect life that results in all the “right” opinions is extremely tiny. Therefore, it would be narrow-minded of me to insist that I am always right. If I can debate with someone for hours on end and they still do not believe my point of view, then I have to assume that they have a compelling reason for doing so.