Appeal Hearing with DHHS

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hello,

This is my first time posting. I know better than to ask that you folks bear with me because it’s no excuse, however, I feel it’s necessary to ask for your patience with me.

I currently live in Maine. After spending the few weeks I’ve had waiting for replies from the free legal help services in my area and all of them subsequently telling me they can’t help me, even though they’re listed as a resource on my paperwork, I am left with less than 13 hours until my appeal hearing this afternoon (Monday).

What’s happened is relatively simple; I was receiving SNAP benefits (aka food stamps) and after a year of being in school and receiving them, I got a letter in the mail stating that I should not have been allowed food stamps while a college student, and that being a student means I’m not entitled to any food stamps whatsoever.

They told me that while this issue is listed as Agency Error, wherein my case worker failed to close my SNAP benefits when updating the information that I was a student via an annual review, I am being told that I am still accountable for repaying the amount in full. This is over 2 grand.

I do not feel this is fair to tell me to pay this back when it is listed as not being my fault.

My question is, what sort of defenses would be helpful or applicable to help me win my appeal and overturn the decision by DHHS?

I will also cite the fact that DHHS in Maine recently tried to ask people on a much larger scale to repay food stamps when it was a large agency error, and the federal government told them they were not allowed to do that - DHHS is in appeal themselves about this. I don’t know if this would be a good idea or detrimental to my case if I cited this as a sterling reason why I should not be told to pay back this money when it was deemed agency error.

The article about that is here:
http://bangordailynews.com/2012/09/27/politics/state-house/feds-maine-cant-make-families-repay-food-stamp-benefits/

Again, please note that DHHS did indeed file an appeal. This is the most recent news about this case as far as I have been able to find.

Anyway, thank you for your time. I can only hope this discussion will not get too political in nature. I understand there are varied viewpoints about people who recieve help from social net programs across the country, with many people speculating on the very-lazy-boogieman/woman who uses every possible way to live in the lap of luxury from receiving this assistance.

I’ve struggled with homelessness which has changed my life forever in ways big and small. Anyone who thinks people live on the street for fun or being lazy, I urge them to try it out themselves. I am attending college. The cost of living is extremely high right now.

Thanks for your time.

2

According to the state of Maine, there are a few exemptions to the student disqualification. Do you work at least 20 hrs. per week, or fit one of the other qualifications for exemption?

If you were honest with your caseworker about your student status, I don’t think it’s fair for them to ask for restitution, as it was their error, and not intentional fraud on your part.

Definitely mention the USDA’s decision that the state cannot reclaim the extra funds they overpaid recipients last year. Even though DHHS has filed an appeal, at the time of your hearing, the decision stands.

Good luck!

3

Yes, I’m aware of that. I have not been working at work study or anything else - just attending school.

Thank you for your input, Ms. Pumpkin. I am very nervous that they will tell me that the case regarding the massive overpayment that the government has said the State of Maine has to pay back is going to be categorized as unrelated, and in fact a bad thing to bring up because of whatever comparisons they might want to draw between the cases and try to blame me for making those supposed comparisons that I was not intending to do.

Plus, although my paperwork says that the hearing is run by an “impartial” hearing officer, I’m afraid that if they really are working on behalf of DHHS and in the time they’ve spent dealing with making decisions on cases just like mine, they’ve been told or are manipulated in some way to be biased against people like myself and more in favor of DHHS, and so would use the argument,

“By agreeing to the SNAP benefits and using them, you agreed to overpay any future overpayment, even if it’s deemed agency error. Case closed.”

I’ve already had the book thrown at me once by my caseworker (who by the way is the one person in the office who is deemed the one who handles overpayment problems - someone I spoke to on the phone said not even her supervisor could handle these things, only her), When she told me that they had to cancel my benefits, I had called her and asked her if it was possible they could wait until I resumed school in September (or even October because my community college is one of the only ones in the country that holds releasing financial aid checks back a whole month). She called me back and left me a message reciting from the book how school vacations and recesses are still considered being in school because of being considered a “matriculated” student, and therefore I was not entitled to benefits even on summer break.

I hope you can see my worry that bringing up something technically unrelated to my case (as far as I think it could be construed) would be a bad idea? Maybe I’m just far too paranoid for my own good? I don’t know. The tone in Maine of helping people who need it is very strained. There are many people who work 70+ hour workweeks here and don’t have much sympathy for people who “aren’t willing” to do the same thing.

4

Any scandal involving state snap benefits is not related to your case. There’s no benefit to bringing it up in an administrative hearing where the judge will only really be looking into the law on SNAP benefits and how they pertain to you. It will make you look irrational to even bring it up, unless you can explain how it affects your case directly.

I would guess that given you do not fall into a recognized exception you will have to pay it back. Generally you should be given “time to pay” or whatever they call it in your state. I realize it is through no fault of your own, but the state is alleging you were unjustly enriched at taxpayers expense by unearned benefits, and, as far as what you’ve posted, you admit that’s true. This basically the same situation as if you get your tax refund check was too much. Ypyre going to have to return the money unless it turns out you were due to receive it. It doesn’t matter that the IRS made a mistake, not you.

You should not this as meaning the judge is biased against you. It is the law that is biased against you.

Have you requested

5

Legal advice is best suited to IMHO.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

6

Sorry that was not meant to be submitted yet. The final question is, is mediation an option for your case and if so, have you requested it?

7

I know- I’ve lived in Maine my whole life. I still don’t think it would hurt to mention last year’s USDA decision against the state. Even though it doesn’t have any bearing on your specific case, I still think it sets a precedent when it comes to overpayment liability. I probably wouldn’t start my appeal with that argument though. I’d start with the fact that your caseworker knew you were a student, and could have cut off your benefits long ago, and it’s because of ongoing incompetence by a representative of their agency that you are even in this mess.

I hope they at least try to work out a suitable arrangement with you, if you do have to repay. I haven’t had help from DHHS since I was 18, and they were still using paper food stamps, so I really don’t remember how accommodating or reasonable they are.

8

Thank you for placing my post in the correct forum, Mod Colibri!

To Ms. Pumpkin, that’s awesome you’re a Maine native, that means a lot to me in terms of advice. After taking some time to look over all of the paperwork I’ve been sent from them prior to this case, and regarding this case, I actually think I have a shot based on the info I’ve been submitted and how things transpired.

Furthermore, I found some advice online that stated things I should keep in mind in my defense:

-I gave DHHS all the information asked for.

-I did not know DHHS made a mistake.

-I thought I were eligible for the benefits I got, and thus spent them.

-Therefore, it was reasonable for me to rely on DHHS.

9

Former caseworker checking in.

As I understand the rules, you’re fucked.

You have to pay it back whether the agency screwed up or you lied to them.

Why? Because it is very, VERY easy, if you’re a caseworker and know what you’re doing, to give people benefits they’re not eligible for. All it takes is a few screens coded incorrectly in the computer system and boom, Food Stamps, Medicaid, etc.

Caseworkers are generally paid jack shit, mind you … so suppose for a moment that people ONLY had to pay back benefits if they defrauded the system, and if it was agency error they’d be off the hook. Suddenly errbody and their dead grandmother would be getting benefits because some caseworkers could easily be bribed to “accidentally” code things incorrectly in the computer … because they’re paid jack shit and need the money.

They’ll probably let you pay it back gradually though, and admittedly I don’t know how much discretion the judge has. That said back in my days as a caseworker I NEVER saw anyone get away with not having to pay 'em back, even though they weren’t at fault.

10

Thanks for your input, PandaBear77.

I had my hearing today - there was no judge. It was a tape-recorded, informal hearing though still under oath, in a small conference room, and there were three people - me, my caseworker, and the impartial hearing officer.

As far as the fact that this was deemed agency error, this appeared to be a rare thing. Furthermore, it appeared to look VERY bad on my caseworker. It wasn’t a feeling of “this happens all the time and we have nothing to worry about.”

Furthermore, it appeared that I was far more prepared than they were used to seeing during an appeal hearing. I wrote out and printed out the timeline of events in clear and concise detail, and made two copies in case, which came in very handy. I had my shit together more than my caseworker did. It feels to me that many people in this area hate dealing with DHHS so much that they don’t really do the appeal hearing thing.

As far as the caseworkers in this area being corrupt enough to accept bribery, that can happen anywhere, and quite frankly I highly doubt they would take the money here, and moreover would just screw the client in the ass as hard as possible for trying.

Lastly, my hearing official made it clear to me that when I do receive my decision, I will once again have the ability to appeal it. If the decision is ruled in the favor of DHHS, I am certainly going to appeal - and I think they got that idea from how well I presented myself and the fact that I not only made sure to bring my paperwork that they sent to me in the mail that they were presenting as evidence, but I had my own evidence that I submitted as well, one of those things was a notice sent twice on the same day with slightly different wording verifying my award for food stamps while being a student. It’s right there in plain English, and when I handed it in as another piece of evidence, they both got very quiet.

I have a case.

I appreciate the time everyone has spent here giving their two cents. I will be updating this thread when I get the decision so that those who have this prob in the future might have something on the net to refer to.

BTW, I chose not to talk about the issue with the Feds demanding DHHS to pay back the agency error they made last year…it felt like a bad idea so I decided not to.

11

Good luck marfington, keep us updated!

12

Good job! I hope it all turns out well for you, in the end. Keep us posted.

13

Will do, thank you :slight_smile:

14

Any news yet?

15

Not yet. Still waiting on a decision to come in the mail. Thank you for remembering to check in, that was nice of you.

16

Checking in again :slight_smile:

17

I am a financial assistance supervisor and started as a caseworker in 2000. I have never known an appeals judge to reverse an overpayment decision for a federally funded program like SNAP based on an agency error.

This type of error is very common, probably second only to errors around immigration status. Policy is complex and laws change all the time. Errors are frequently caught only at review times, when another set of eyes reviews the case.

Federal government mandates that state and county agencies recoup funds issued in error, even when it was agency error. States can lose funding for failure to cite overpayments. This year, in Minnesota, DHS announced that failure to follow federal mandates could result in county agencies being put on peformance improvement plans, lose state funding in some cases, or even have approval rights revoked.

I am sorry for you that this happened, OP. I suspect ruling will be upholding agency decision, unless policy was not correctly applied to your case. Repayment agreements can be negotiated; if you do become eligible for SNAP at some later date, they will recoup a small portion of that grant each month until repayment is complete. You can also opt to pay a small amount each month, or settle on a reduced amount if you pay it all upfront. If you do nothing, eventually state/federal tax refunds will be withheld. They may even choose to take you to court and have wages garnished.

Eligibility workers in MN are not paid “crap”; they start out at nearly $17/hr and while this is not a princely sum, it is certainly a livable wage and sufficient to expect that the worker will take his/her job seriously. I tell my workers, if they cannot be bothered to work efficiently and accurately, and to treat clients with respect, they really need to be greeting people at Wal-Mart or selling widgets at a factory. Not that such behavior is acceptable ANYWHERE, but that in my opinion, it is less objectionable to screw off when the bottom line is an inconvenienced customer. What we do impacts lives.

18

BTW appeals judges can and often do rake neglectful workers over the coals during an appeal hearing. But they are ultimately tasked with determining if the agency failed to uphold policy when taking a negative action. The only way you are going to win this appeal is if you were in fact eligible for SNAP while attending school. Some exemptions are attending less than half time, or involved in federal work-study program.