This is definitely true. Similarly, somehow a moronic tweet by some random person that is liked by 100 people has the exact same importance as a moronic tweet by members of our government that affects hundreds of millions of people. I never did get that.
That, and I can’t see the slightest reason why someone who doesn’t go to school there would care about this.
Are you kidding?
Just watch this video of the white teacher being attacked:
What was this womans "crime’? She showed up that day! The video also shows other staff including the college president being attacked.
Yes, I have read some debunking sites like this: https://psmag.com/education/the-real-free-speech-story-at-evergreen-college . But how do you “debunk” that video?
I’m not convinced. If their really was no story here why did the campus chief of police resign? Why did the college have to pay off all those teachers and staff? Why is there enrollment down 20%?
They did it again this year: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/17/evergreen-college-students-back-it-no-white-people/
This article also shows a poster that says “POC Only”. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/evergreen-state-college-students-host-no-whites-allowed-event-for-second-year-in-a-row-but-at-what-cost
Why do they let the lunatics take over a college anyways?
For the same reason you are lumping every individual who is trying to fight the very real problem of race in with a group of individuals who paid for their transgressions.
While it may help self-justify labeling individuals as less than human, blaming the many for actions of the few is intellectually dishonest.
It is simply a case of confirmation bias to avoid the more complicated aspects of the issue.
Plopping all people in the same bucket is far from fair when nothing you have offered demonstrates this is even a large minority let alone the majority of actors.
Just in case you don’t read my link above, can you justify why you aren’t equally outraged by this?
“Paid for their Transgressions”? Right? Are you kidding? It said the punishments range from warnings to “community service”. Oh yeah, that makes sense. Punish a student by forcing them to work for the same crazy liberal/progressive causes they already support!
But your right. I dont blame the students so much as the idiots in charge for allowing this.
Please, Please… if you find a site that actually shows how many students got off with just a warning (which I bet they laughed at), had to do “community service” at the leftist/progressive organization they themselves choose, and to how many were actually suspended - please post it.
Here is a good video of the 20 most outrageous things done at Evergreen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ4mnQ2mV8Q
Everything from attacking staff members to demanding no homework!
Sure that was also bad. The lunatics were allowed to run the asylum and now they are paying for it.
Can you justify the crazies barricading the white staff in their offices, refusing to allow them to leave or even use the restroom, and demanding they be fired?
“Hey hey, ho ho, these racists teachers have got to go…”
Do you think they deserved that?
You are still missing the point-But I will move on.
While I get you are making the argument that some how white people are so weak and feeble as to be permanently destroyed by some teenagers taunting them or demanding no homework…
The main thing I see in that video you posted is that it was posted by an individual who is terrified of ideas they don’t understand and which is using white supremacist language every single time the teachers demonstrate that they are not suffering from abject terror by the students behavior.
Note at 2:56 where the terms “SJW” and “cukery”
I would suggest that you have an honest discussion with someone who isn’t as terrified by the prospect of having equal rights for all Americans. I think that you will find they are not ashamed of who they are, or afraid.
If you keep sticking to media sources like the one you offered, you are only going to hear the propaganda from a group that only came together due to their irrational fears and ignorance.
The shame that those groups are selling is self imposed and merely plays the role of maintaining their irrational beliefs.
You don’t even have to resort to authors in these other demonized dehumanized groups you offered above.
No I just don’t cower when teenagers react in response to very real social problems.
Despite your implications not all of us are terrified by these actions. When people have been wronged for a long time and silenced they tend to blow off some steam once they finally get an opportunity to not be silenced.
A serious question, have you ever spent much time with teenagers even when they haven’t been subject to institutionalized bias and racism?
Urbanredneck,
Before you dismiss this as a SJW statement, take the time to consider it.
There is a typical human behavior called the *fundamental attribution error * or attribution effect. This behavior typically takes active, intentional effort to not be subject to it so remember this is not a judgmental claim on my part.
For people who you consider to belong to other groups the tendency is to apply moral judgments to their actions rather than considering external factors.
For people who do consider to be in your group the tenancy is to downplay actions and intent or to better take external factors into consideration.
This is true for people who drive different brands of cars, like other sports teams or for those who belong to other races.
These attribution errors are why despite my request to address the very real threats of violence by people who didn’t like the protests you ignored that part of my argument and focused on your pre-existing narrative in your argument.
With the understanding that I am making no claims about your beliefs the jargon I mentioned before is deeply rooted in white nationalism. White nationalism, like many mass movements leverages our human limitations to grow their base. The themes in that youtube video are directly adapted from writings by an organization founded by Wesley A. Swift and Richard Girnt Butler who also founded and ran the Aryan Nations.
While I have absolutely no doubt that you almost certainly didn’t know the origins of this propaganda, the fact that they are taken directly from these groups are exactly why they elicit accusations of raicsm/sexism/bigotrywhen they are used when people do know their origins.
If I was proselytizing with bible verses people would assume I am Christian and that same logic works in this case.
If you feel like the intent of your message is being lost by people resorting to labeling your ideas as such it may behoove you to simply change the terms you are using and the citations you offer to avoid references to terminology that was born directly from the white supremacist movement.
No I’m not interested in such a debate. I’m pretty sure it’s going to boil down to the definition of expert, because, with mine, it seems so utterly obvious there are experts. There are people who study racism and have made it their life’s work. And there is a fairly broad agreement on what is and isn’t racism–the debates are in the nuances.
As for the rest, we’re talking past each other so much and have gone so far afield that I think we’d just be going further off the road to keep on.
Since I have so thoroughly misunderstood you, I will ask you the most basic of questions: what is your answer to the OP?
Mine is basically “no.” At least, among those who are actually anti-racist, there is very little use of “racist” to try and shut down debates. And, rather than the word being watered down, it is being artificially limited, because people get too insulted by even suggesting the idea that something might be racist.
I do, however, see a small but worrying tendency of people being called racist for saying anti-racist things. I recently saw a video making fun of racist remarks made towards her. And she was called a racist for making fun of them.
And here’s my second question: what relevance does your second post have? What are you saying about the topic of the thread? I clearly misunderstood your point, so could you make it more clear?
Protests are themselves a form of free speech. They cannot be a form of censorship.
That said, you can have examples where people go beyond protesting. Where they do more than just stand and shout. Where they threaten physical harm, or, worse, actually commit it. Where they artificially entrap people.
The problem is, the protests that conservatives talk about tend to just be protests. If the conservative speaker decides not to have a debate, then it is labeled “censorship.” Or they will say that they shouldn’t be allowed to speak, which is then called “censorship,” when it is really just stating their opinion.
The cries of censorship by the right are to the point where many on the left just ignore it, as we assume it wasn’t really censorship. It was someone using their speech to disagree.
The problem is that, while you can go a little ways with discussing thing by just discussing the concepts rather than the terms, it’s extremely difficult to continue a discussion without naming the concept you are discussing.
I used to think I could discuss white privilege without using the term. And I can, at the most basic level–even if it gets tedious and long winded, which are bad for understanding in this slogan/buzzword culture. But I lose the ability to discuss it as it increases.
That said, I do object to “if you are white you are racist,” but on conceptual grounds. If you mean “racist” the way it is normally used, then it is false. If you mean it in the “everyone is a little bit racist” way, then it’s true, but unfairly singles out white people.
I am against any attempt to redefine white so that the KKK slogan “anti-racist means anti-white” is true. I’m against anything that seems hypocritical, where inserting black where you use white would be considered racist.
But I think we have to use these terms. The best we can do is mention what they mean, then say there is a term for that, and be clear that it doesn’t mean what they think it means.
It would help if people understood the difference between Implicit Bias, Explicit bias and Racism though.
But to be honest neither side (conservative/liberal) seems to be interested in that. When some minorities try to explain I have seen them shouted down by both sides.
Alright, I can get on board with that. Give me three names of experts then and tell me what specific credential separates them from non-expert.
My answer to the OP is yes and no. As an example to illustrate my opinion I will give you
the redskins name controversy. Given your proclivity to rely on experts, you may not find this example palatable given that the studies only assess the feelings of your average person of Native American descent and do not rely on the opinions of people who have spent an undetermined as of yet years using scientific analysis to draw a conclusion as to whether something is offensive or not.
The biggest problem I have with this is when one can no longer separate the individual and the race. I believe this perpetuates a new type of racism, and, although often well meaning erects new barriers more than it breaks down old ones.
This happens also. Lots of things happen, people do get called racist for saying anti-racist things, people get called racist for things many minorities would not call racist, sometimes racism doesn’t get called out when it should. I believe all of these things exist in society, this is not a zero-sum game.
I’m not really sure what the relevance of anything I say has. My point is that I work with people who have been to college, I work with people who have been to jail, some are from the worst backgrounds you can imagine, numerous religions, non religions and political perspectives. Many of us have various opinions on things but somehow, with all of this we are able to support each other and get along. So while these experts are coming from on high like moses with his tablets to formulate the unalienable truths of what is and is not racist and giving edicts on who to watch out for and who to hate and why, we are humbly going about our work and find a way to get along and listen to each other - and, perish the thought, sometimes understand even if we don’t agree. None of us, however, have spent years studying racism, so our opinions are not really relevant to anything I suppose.
Okay. Are these events at Evergreen State College exemplary of:
A) National politics as a whole
B) Universities as a whole
C) Evergreen State College as a whole
D) Specific events at evergreen state college?
The answer is D.
Speaking of “attacking staff members”, looking into these events at Evergreen led me to this article: Signal Boost: How Conservative Media Outlets Turn Faculty Viewpoints Into National News. It’s an interesting piece documenting how the right-wing media takes relatively innocuous statements by liberal professors, morphs them into something far less innocuous, and makes them national news. For example, why is it national news when a college professor speaks up against Trump at a commencement speech? It isn’t. It shouldn’t be. There’s nothing surprising or important there. But it feeds into this narrative of far-left colleges, and it’s essentially a form of doxxing via signal-boosting. And when this happens, look at some of the consequences:
The repercussions: Ms. Taylor said she had received racist, sexist messages as well as death threats. In a statement on Facebook at the end of May, she announced that she was canceling her forthcoming public talks.
“The cancellation of my speaking events is a concession to the violent intimidation that was, in my opinion, provoked by Fox News,” she said.
[…]
The repercussions: On Wednesday, facing what law-enforcement officers called “non-specific” threats, Trinity College temporarily shut down.
Mr. Williams said he also received threats by email and telephone. “This attack is at a level of vitriol and hatred in excess of what I have ever experienced,” he said in his statement. “This seems to be a national drive of intimidation of professors which all colleges and universities should be concerned about.”
[…]
The repercussions: Ms. Bond told The Chronicle that she had received death threats and hateful email messages. Her university supported her throughout the process, she said, but the episode gave her pause about bringing academic work to the public.
Again, this seems a far bigger problem than “PC gone wild” or a few dumb college students going a little too far.
And of course, you always see people reach to the usual suspects. Evergreen again? What, has there not been a single noteworthy outbreak of “PC gone mad” at a college since then? It seems to me like this is something that happens from time to time at Evergreen, and really not so much elsewhere. It has virtually no direct impact on national or even state politics. To the degree it has any impact at all, that impact is driven entirely by the right-wing backlash when the pipeline outlined in that article turns a minor local story into national news.
In the case of Evergreen, the nutjobs from all across the country turned out, leading to threats of massacre that force the school to temporarily shut down and a white supremacist rally at Evergreen. Students felt unsafe and threatened. They had to move their own graduation ceremony off campus because of this. From the article:
Online vigilantes from 4chan, Reddit and other forums swarmed to unearth Evergreen students’ contact information. They have harassed us with hundreds of phone calls, anonymous texts and terrifyingly specific threats of violence that show they know where we live and work.
After I published an essay on Medium to explain the protesters’ side of the story, my full name, phone number and home address were posted online, and I was bombarded with hate-filled messages. I found my name and personal information on message boards, along with rape threats and discussions about which racial slur fit me best (the consensus was the N-word). It took three days to get my personal information taken down, and for others it took longer.
In the past few weeks, the school has been shut down four times because of threats, including one from an anonymous caller who said, “I’m on my way to Evergreen University now with a .44 Magnum. I am gonna execute as many people on that campus as I can get a hold of.”
This seems substantially more significant than the initial student protests. And even more significant than that: politicians are using this as an excuse to go after higher education.
On May 31, State Representative Matt Manweller (political science professor at Central Washington University) submitted a “request for investigation” to the Washington State Human Rights Commission. He reiterated Weinstein’s assertion that he was subjected to race-based exclusion; the Commission chose not to take up the request. Manweller also sent a letter to Evergreen’s Director of Government Relations, stating, “Evergreen students are an embarrassment.” He called the college leadership cowardly and complicit, adding, “My colleagues and I have had enough of this ridiculous behavior fostered at our public institutions.” A few days later, with the support of 14 Republican representatives, he submitted House Bill 2221, proposing “transitioning The Evergreen State College to a private four-year institution of higher education.” Senator Fortunato introduced the companion Senate Bill 5946 to reduce state support for the college in a planned regression of funding over five years, culminating in a sale to a private party, echoing similar proposals from the 1970s and ’80s.
As in - because of the actions of these students and the distorted reporting on the right about what happened, politicians attempted to privatize Evergreen University. Again, this seems substantially more significant than the actual student protest.
This is why I talk about type 1 vs. type 2 errors. It’s trivial to point out that accusations of racism are abused in some cases; hell, it’s happened to me personally. It’s not trivial to say that it’s an endemic problem, and it’s flat-out wrong to say that it’s a more common problem than accusations of racism and bigotry being taken out of context and used as a cudgel to beat the left.
Exactly! DA’s post couldn’t have been more “meta” — more self-referential — if he had tried. It reminds me of the old paradox “This is not a sentence.”
Sorry — here’s DA’s original post, so you don’t have to hunt for it:
“i think that the terms white privilege and white fragility could not have been better designed to close minds. At least with “white privilege” it sort of tracks what the term is trying convey. White fragility OTOH is not very descriptive of the sort of racial defensiveness that some white people have when discussing race.”
Holy fucking shit! Students demanded no homework? Why didn’t you mention this before? It’s clearly the beginning of the path downward to anarchy.
:rolleyes:
Actually I think a better answer would be “All of the Above” since for example
A - look at republicans or members of the Trump administration getting kicked out of restaurants and vilified by the MSM as being radical right wingers.
B. Ok try this. Walk thru any university with a MAGA hat on and just see how it goes over. You will be yelled at, spat on, threatened, etc… You would be blind not to see how crazy the left is on college campuses.
Then go a day wearing a Hillary hat and see how your treated?
C. Ok, on that one I dont know that college but it seems like its been a sort of leftwing radical college for a long time and maybe, this time they just went over the line. And the thing is ALL STUDENTS and ALUMNI, should be concerned about how their college is run and portrayed. Students from Evergreen will graduate, apply for a job and well… if the hiring person thinks Evergreen students are bunch of radical idiots they might hire someone from another school.
D. I’m not sure specifically but the thing is, videos DONT LIE. Teachers and staff were attacked, their ONLY CRIME IS THEY WERE WHITE. The campus police were not allowed to protect them and this is why the head of campus safety quit her job.
Well you know what, again, pictures dont lie. The campus was total chaos. NO LEARNING was taking place. Watch the damn video and see the students demanding that they not be held accountable for homework and projects.
And yes, the college administration should have been taken to task for letting this get out of hand. NO WAY should staff members been allowed to be threatened like that. WATCH THE VIDEO! The college president looked like a spineless weenie. Did you listen to him? He admitted he was racist. He said his staff were racist and would go thru training. He basically admitted every wacko demand the students had were right on and he was going to do whatever they asked. The man was a wimp and doesnt deserve his taxpayer funded job.
And NOW they come out with this BS statement about how 80 students were punished??? By making them work for whatever liberal/progressive group they want? I’m not saying all 80 but frankly many more would have been suspended and not allowed to return without admitting fault, having a parent or guardian, and apologized for threatening staff and disrupting the school.
Also I would post signs all around campus informing students this was a UNIVERSITY. NOT a free for all and their were rules and consequences.
Should that college get reprimanded and even lose state funding? Well that is taxpayer money isnt it? Dont ALL the taxpayers in the state deserve a say so on how their tax money is spent? This is why tax money doesnt go to private, religious based schools.
So what will be the response from the left? This problem is not going away.
Please tell me.
What should be done to students who do these acts?
Should college administrations allow them when they know its being videoed and will soon be on computer screens all over the world?
As for me, the viewer, what should I do?
Ignore them?
Blow them off as right wing propaganda?
What criteria should I use when judging an incident?
Now have there been similar incidents at other colleges this year? I dont know but the thing is video cameras are everywhere. Alternate news sites are everywhere. Where once college students could do about whatever they want and it wouldnt get out other than local news, now with the power of cameras and the web, it does make the national news. Its a new world for the left and they better deal with it.