Find a different dating site?
Because it’s been amply demonstrated to me that a person is either transgender or cisgender. There is no other way to be.
But people were complaining that some dating sites didn’t offer all the options. Are you saying that there should be dating sites that only have “woman” and “man” as options?
Since the burden is by far lightest for the cisgender people who don’t want to date transpeople, I’m glad you validate my point.
My point is your arbitrary breakpoints you pulled out of your ass have no factual validity. Back up your numbers.
Strawman; I never said nor implied “the rest of the world.” Just people in the context of a dating site. You want to amend that statement then I’m guessing…
Back. Up. Your. Numbers. I’ve asked you about a dozen times now, and you keep bobbing and weaving like Cassius Clay in his prime, trying to avoid the question. And yet, the question still stands.
Goalpost shifting.
Back. Up. Your. Numbers.
And you know, for someone who keeps claiming not to be a bigot, and for someone who keeps claiming not to even be interested in using dating sites, you certainly are spending a lot of time white-knighting the poor, oppressed cisgender persons. For someone with neither literal nor figurative skin in the game, you certainly seem very, very interested in transgender topics.
No, I’m saying that whether or not a trans person feels comfortable disclosing that they’re trans is solely at their discretion. It’s not my place to tell them when it’s appropriate to do so. It’s not yours, either. Nor is it Damuri’s.
I could have sworn I explained that part already.
It almost seems like this argument is just a manifestation of “no homo! No homo!” How unfortunate.
I’ve never in my life met nor heard of a transgender person who really wanted a relationship or sex with someone who hated them, found them disgusting, found them to be a joke, denied their reality, wanted to deprive them of life and liberty, wanted to take their jobs and careers away, wanted them to be thrown out of or denied entrance to school, thrown out of stores and restaurants, or even wanted us expelled and expunged from our places of worship. I guess there might be someone out there. I guess? I read once about a man who ate a bicycle, so who knows what some people will do.
But we don’t want you, OK? We really, really don’t want people who are disgusted by or disappointed in us. Not for coffee, not for conversation, and certainly not for a one-night stand - let alone, marriage. And cease the false equivalence that typing “no trans” is just as burdensome and just as risky as forcing us to reveal private medical information to the entire community on a dating site (or the world, if the site has public profiles).
Simply be honest and forthright - things that were once conservative principles, long, long ago - and we will know never to even look your way. For instance, take manson1972. He and I certainly don’t see the same way on these subjects, but I’ve always felt like he’s tried to be forthright in his arguments. He admits when his opinion is just an opinion and doesn’t try to dress it up as anything but that.
Edited: deleted extraneous “s”
Yes, you did explain that. But you seem to refuse to explain what you think about the results of that.
The only thing you have said is if a dating site offers a member the choice of “transgender” or “cisgender” then that person should pick a different dating site.
Is that what you think? If a dating site only offers those two choices, then a person who doesn’t want to select “transgender” should find another dating site?
Thanks for that, really. Honesty is a trait that I value highly, and I try to uphold it always, even online in an anonymous message board.
I suppose “intersex” could be considered a third category…
Careful. We used to say that about male or female, before those other words even existed.
There seems to be a lot of straw on this floor, somehow.
I would have to say that, in my opinion, anybody who is trans gendered almost certainly is suffering from a type of mental and/or emotional disease.
Before you liberals jump down my throat here and accuse me of being a bigot…let is first take a good hard look at the word “dis-ease.”
That’s right…it is actually a combination of the prefix “dis”–meaning “negatively” or “without” and the word “ease.” Meaning, in this context, to be “at ease” or “comfortable.”
Thus: When I claim a TG person is suffering from a mental or emotional disease, I am simply claiming that they are not comfortable, or ill at-ease with their original, genetic sex. So much so, that they are compelled to dress and act and live their lives as much they can in the guise of the sex which they are biologically not.
I don’t have to say that Evolution did not intend this. Nor did biology. Nor did Nature. Our species of homo sapiens would not have made it to the top of the food chain, and outlived and vanquished the other 20-some-odd sub-species of the genus homo if our ancestors were all–or even significantly–TG’d.
So…can we now equate being “ill at ease” or “uncomfortable” or even “loathsome” of our genetic sex as being mentally ill? That is…mentally “unwell?”
I think we can.
And I, for one, DO.
TG’d people are simply not psychologically healthy. They are at odds with the primary driving forces of biology and anthropology as we know it. One simply cannot thumb their collective noses at such a crucial and indispensable force or nature and still expect to be termed mentally healthy.
And…not healthy = ill.
TG = Mentally Ill.
Tough equation to refute, wouldn’t you say?
Thanks.
You just made a bald unsupported statement that a “transwoman is a woman, full stop.” You’re wrong.
At no point do I advocate discrimination against transwomen. You seem to think I am advocating all sorts of mistreatment of transwomen. What is it that you think I am advocating here? I am just saying that not being upfront about being transgender is dishonest.
You’re right, being in the majority doesn’t make me right. Being right makes me right. Being in the majority only says that social mores are on my side and social mores could be wrong. Criticizing dishonesty on the part of transwomen may be a social custom that we grow out of as we realize that dishonesty from transwomen is OK if she’s trying to date total strangers. But I doubt it.
Transwomen are clearly not “women, full stop.” I can do a genetic test and distinguish between a woman and a transwoman. A transwoman cannot bear children. A transwoman does not have menstrual cycles. A transwoman was not born a woman. So while common courtesy might require you to refer to and treat a transwoman as a woman (in most circumstances), and while a transwoman might feel like they are women, and while they might fill the role of women in some senses, it would be incorrect to say “transwomen are women, full stop.” And that is what you did.
The folks who are saying that everyone who doesn’t want to date a transwoman should be required to unequivocally state that in their dating profile. Transgenderism is YOUR problem. You’re trying to make YOUR problem everyone else’s problem. We can make reasonable accommodations for you to have access to the bathrooms that you want to use and to make sure you don’t get fired or assaulted because of your transgender status but if you are being dishonest, don’t hide behind the fact that you suffer from discrimination to excuse your dishonesty. Don’t demand that it is the rest of the world that is being dishonest when YOU are the one being dishonest.
But they’re not exactly the same as any other woman. They are different and not disclosing their transgender status when they date is dishonesty.
Being dishonest is shameful. And we should not relieve you of that shame just because you are a transwoman.
No they are not. Not exactly.
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on that. In fact I suspect we are going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of things because you don’t seem to grok the difference between a transwoman and a natural born woman.
I don’t recall anything other than lack of chemistry; inconvenient geography; my immaturity; their immaturity; someone better coming along for one of us while we were dating; etc.
And yes transgenderism would have been an instant deal-breaker for me regardless of whether they are pre-op or post-op.
I don’t have many prejudices against trans-people. I pity them and feel sorry for their unfortunate circumstance. I can’t imagine how uncomfortable you must have felt in your own skin to want to make such a drastic change. I have some pity for them because they will have to live with the stigma and whispers for the foreseeable future. I feel bad for them that they now see the gay community being able to (in many cases) come out to their family and friends with few negative repercussions, while they still risk everything when they come out. But I don’t have any animus against them.
A natural born heterosexual male is in no way dishonest for not proactively stating in his profile “no trans” A transwoman who doesn’t disclose that they are a transwoman to a person who they know is going to assume they are a natural born woman is in fact being dishonest. That’s not applying differing social standards. That’s using logic and reason.
So show me one transgender woman that got beaten for being honest about their transgender status before a date. I will show you 3 that got beaten for not mentioning it until after they started dating someone. The fact that transwomen get murdered for being transgender isn’t an “I win all arguments even if my argument doesn’t make any sense” card.
Of course transgender folks can also stop dating total strangers.
Yes it is.
We are talking about human behaviour and social costs. What did you think economics was?
How do YOU respond to Ambivalid’s argument that the burden of disclosure is on the transwoman?
Yes, you can even major in it in college. Just like you can major in religion even though there is more than one of those.
It seems to be your Trump card. I’m sorry if you are having trouble understanding what I wrote.
Once again, I don’t know how these websites work but don’t you have to be looking for a transwoman for a transwoman to pop up on your filter? Or are you talking about a co-worker that is looking for a transwoman? I suppose if this worries you then you really oughtn’t be dating total strangers because someone’s gonna find out you are a transwoman sooner or later if you keep dating total strangers.
cite. For every example that you can come up with where a transwoman got beaten by a lover that KNEW they were transexual because they were embarrassed that their friends found out, I will provide 2 examples of a transwoman being beaten up by a romantic partner who didn’t know they were transexual.
Nope. An argument was presented I rebutted it. You apparently don’t understand what victim blaming means.
That was the example that was presented by others. Ask them.
If you aren’t being forthright at other venues, then you are being dishonest there too unless the venue is known for a lot of transwoman traffic.
Its not my job to help expand the dating pool for transexuals. My only obligation is to make sure that they are treated with respect and human dignity and not discriminated against. Just like its not your job to make society view Asian men or black women as sexually desirable. Your only obligation is to make sure that we are treated with respect and human dignity and not discriminated against.
The argument that I have been making is that if you are a transwoman and you don’t disclose, then you are being dishonest.
Of course that’s ridiculous.
Ambivalid’s argument is on point. I’m sorry that life dealt you this particular card but that doesn’t excuse dishonesty when you have the moral burden of disclosure.
Maybe you missed it the last time but you are making a very bad argument here. In fact its called the continuum fallacy:
For the purposes of this conversation, its the rest of the world. Your quibbling about this reveals the weakness of your arguments.
Once again:
I don’t have to draw a bright line for my argument to hold.
The crux of your argument is “if I disclose my transgender status, people will beat me up” OK so show me when this happens?
And a third time:
There are only a few areas where you will see this sort of intentional disregard of logic and reason and blatant appeals to emotional arguments. Look, I’m sorry for your troubles, you got dealt a shitty hand. But that doesn’t entitle you to insist that society should be ordered and adopt customs to make your life easier. It doesn’t entitle you to insist that we overlook dishonesty just because you are having trouble dating. I know you’re a very good person, I know that you do good things and help a lot of people. But hiding your transgender status from a date is still dishonest.
So you are saying that one of the reasons transwomen don’t disclose is NOT because they hope that the guy they are on a date with will maybe overlook the trans status after they get to know them? I personally have no illusions that anyone is lusting after me, gay straight or trans.
And trans status is medical information? Is having a penis also medical information? because these things seem like things you would mention on a dating profile. They seem pretty relevant.
I’m not a conservative. Unless you think 80%+ of people are conservatives. And its still dishonest to hide your transgender status.
Okay, let’s step through this.
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I think it’s improper to require transgender people to reveal that they’re transgender.
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You propose a hypothetical dating website that requires people to reveal whether or not they’re transgender.
1 + 2 = that’s a shitty dating site, and people should go to a better one that doesn’t require everyone to disclose private medical details as part of your dating profile.
Actually, it’s extraordinarily easy. “Disease” does not mean “not comfortable.”
Done.
Yeah. Dating is utterly different than hiring someone to do random labor.
I’m getting sick of the endless cut and paste arguments, so I think I’ll just cut to the chase.
You can’t do that, and say this:
They are mutually incompatible positions.