There’s a difference between those places and the U.S. For one, the U.S. has always had these problems and it doesn’t just involve a single racial/ethnic group. There’s an across the board polarization issue based on race in this society. Second of all whether those other places have a problem is debatable. Tribalism, anti-semitism, etc. goes beyond race and is frequently a religious or territorial issue. We’re talking about RACE related divisions here not anything else. The only other country i’ll agree with that has many race related problems similar to the U.S. is Australia.
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This is a bit of a myth until proven otherwise i’ve never seen any direct comparisons that would show that our “minorities” have more influence than other societies.
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That’s the difference between perceived stereotyping in other countries versus the U.S. In the U.S. the educational and media is such that if we really wanted to there would be more awareness concerning racism. I find that people in the U.S. who are racist tend to be willfully so. It’s not just borne out of mere ignorance but genuine malevolence. I’m asian-american and i’ve run into this quite a bit. It seems people in the U.S. want to TEST you by insinuating something racist or making racist comments in front of your face.
Well congratulations you’ve walked maybe 1/8th the mile in my shoes when experienced ingrained social racism. I’d say it’s even worse in the U.S. when it comes to all of the things you stated above. For every example you claim to have experienced in Asia i’m sure I could name 10 in response to my living in the U.S. Also, racism in the U.S. tends to be more violence orientated. There is a certain willfull maliciousness to racism in the U.S. I can’t explain. It’s almost a complex that lingers with the population used to oppress anyone that doesnt fit in as the conventional American.
And the exact same is true for all the other places I named. Europe also has historically denigrated the Roma (“Gypsies”).
There’s an across the board polarization issue based on race in this society. Second of all whether those other places have a problem is debatable. Tribalism, anti-semitism, etc. goes beyond race and is frequently a religious or territorial issue. We’re talking about RACE related divisions here not anything else. The only other country i’ll agree with that has many race related problems similar to the U.S. is Australia.
This is a bit of a myth until proven otherwise i’ve never seen any direct comparisons that would show that our “minorities” have more influence than other societies.
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That’s the difference between perceived stereotyping in other countries versus the U.S. In the U.S. the educational and media is such that if we really wanted to there would be more awareness concerning racism. I find that people in the U.S. who are racist tend to be willfully so. It’s not just borne out of mere ignorance but genuine malevolence. I’m asian-american and i’ve run into this quite a bit. It seems people in the U.S. want to TEST you by insinuating something racist or making racist comments in front of your face.
Well congratulations you’ve walked maybe 1/8th the mile in my shoes when experienced ingrained social racism. I’d say it’s even worse in the U.S. when it comes to all of the things you stated above. For every example you claim to have experienced in Asia i’m sure I could name 10 in response to my living in the U.S. Also, racism in the U.S. tends to be more violence orientated. There is a certain willfull maliciousness to racism in the U.S. I can’t explain. It’s almost a complex that lingers with the population used to oppress anyone that doesnt fit in as the conventional American. **
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And the exact same is true for all the other places I named. Europe also has historically denigrated the Roma (“Gypsies”). Australia has a anti-Asian-immigrant movement.
No, not really. Do you need cites on European anti-semitism?
And as discussed by many above, “race” is a myth. Animosity based on ancestry and culture/religion is universal. I think the fact that there are international conferences on racism, with participants from dozens of countries, makes the point.
If you want make it strictly about skin color, you first need to identify how many countries have substantial “different skin color” minorities – there aren’t many – then investigate them. I invite you to read up on Brazil.
I don’t have time to look for cites right now, so I will table the point.
I have cited Europe and Australia. I have been told about or experienced racial tension in Korea, Taiwan and Thailand. All educated, developed country. India probably has a pretty good literacy rate, and dating outside your caste can still get you lynched. http://www.the-week.com/21sep09/cover.htm
Probably so; I am also sure you have walked only 1/8 of the mile of many other persecuted minorities in other countries. Have you ever feared for your life because you were an Asian in America? For that matter, to take my own experiences, have you:
Had vendors refuse to serve you because of race?
Had parents explicitly forbid daughters from dating you solely because of your race?
Had girls you date called “whore” or the equivalent to their face each and every time you took them out?
If the first one happened, I assume you filed suit…
Look, to point out that racism is universal doesn’t excuse it. But to think it is exclusively an American thing or a white thing is to misdiagnose the problem, and put us farther away from a cure.
Do Americans have an infatuation with race? I don’t think so. If they do, it’s really no more prevelant than other regions of the world. The UK, for example, has just as tender and prominent race issues as the US, and so do nations like Belize, Mexico, and Canada (however in the three latter countries the race relations are focused primarily with natives).
Although not a racial issue, the Balkans certainly are infatuated with nationality, to such a degree that it’s nearly absurd at times. Many regions of Africa are also afflicted with racial hostilities between various tribes, which can be viewed as a racial infatuation. Certainly America is by no means alone in racial fixations.
Race may be scientifically a “myth” but it doesn’t stop people from discriminating using that as a criteria. I think there are different levels of racism though. For instance amongst caucasians you used to have englishmen looking down on irishmen and scotts etc. However taken as a whole caucasians in general will view other “races” with far more varying physical attributes as even lower on the social totem pole. I don’t know if it’s a psychological or cultural thing but it’s definitely bred more deeply into western thought.
Some Asian countries may be “racist” in a strict sense but most of it is ignorance. The difference between asian racism and white racism is that asian racism isn’t based on any kind of racial superiority dogma. Most of it is ignorant and cursory observations that have arisen from a lack of contact. The only exception to this is the Japanese during their emperialism days. However most of their ideals were based on the tenets of european colonialism. I think in western culture racism tends to be more engrained and institutionalized as a correct form of thinking. Maybe it originated out of competitive thinking but there’s always some kind of sliding scale when it comes to how you rank in American society based on race alone.
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Yes, I have feared for my life before being asian in America. There are certain places in the U.S. where I have to keep an eye over my shoulder because of racist attitudes. I guess you never read of the Vincent Chin case or others like it.
Yes, i’ve had parents explicitly forbid their daughters from seeing me. Many times this racism isn’t stated it’s subtle. I’ve had glares, staring contests, and racist comments from guys who had a problem with me dating a “white” woman before. Even though it’s perfectly ok for guys to date asian women. This is an example of neo-colonialist attitudes based on gender.
I don’t think I ever said it was exclusively an American or white thing. I did point out that it seems like America has the deepest infatuation with race issues.
I can believe that. If your racist attitudes ever lead you to accuse my Asian wife of being a sell-out or a mail order bride or a sexual wallflower within my earshot, then yes, you’d better watch your back.
And I’m sure it had nothing to do with the fact that you act like an asshole the first time people meet you. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly *
**:rolleyes:
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Nice quote out of context there, bubba.
You would not do shit to me because I would fuck you up if you ever tried to lay a single hand on me. Believe that.
…and all of this is gathered from what? Observations made on a forum? clap I’m sure your keen insights into the human psyche will win several noble prizes and advance the cause for world peace.
:rolleyes:
So . . . feistymongol asserts his right to call my wife a mail order bride for no reason other than her race, and I’d better not get angry or anything about him insulting her, ya know, because he’ll “fuck me up if I ever try to lay a single hand on him”.
Nice. Real nice. I think I’ll let the mods sort this one out.
You can’t be frickin’ serious? Asian societies can be incredibly racist based on racial superiority dogma. What else is it based on? You need to get a reality check or spend some time in Asia if you truely believe the above propaganda. Racism in Asia, throughout Asia, between Asians in Asia, belief in superiority over all other races is very alive and well. How that compares vis-a-vis the US is hard to say.
No doubt you’ve encountered racism in America. Certainly, I have personally encountered many of the same type of racial incidents as you have mentioned as a white American in Asia, and without recourse to firearms or a court system.
To be fair, I’ve also benefited (sometimes enormously) by virture of being a white American in Asia. I knew Poles and Russians who didn’t receive those benefits, so it had a lot more to do with what country you hail from than pigmentation. Now this is probably a major point where our experiences diverge. Have you ever had an experience where being an Asian was advantageous in your view in America or is it always neutral to negative?
I’m probably with Doghouse Reilly on this one, I will be “more” insulted by an Asian American making a racist stereotypical comment about my Chinese wife or Amer-Asian daughter than I would be from some dumbass redneck.
Which is ahistorical fucking bullshit, bigoted crap and displays a prejudiced superiority of the exact kind that is supposed to be under criticism. Examples of Asian racism over the ages:
[ol]The Chin Empire vs. the Mongols
The Mongols vs. most anyone
Tribal conflict in Thailand / Cambodia / Korea
The Indian caste system
The Kazaks vs. the Mongols
The Chechens vs. the Kazaks
The Persians vs. the Arabs
The Arabs vs. the Jews
The Jews vs. The Arabs
Japanese vs. Ainu
Arabs vs. Black people
Arabs vs. Indians
Indian Ceylonese vs. Tamil[/ol]
All based on “racial superiority dogma” and there are more examples. Get off the cross Feistymongol, it’s too crowded up there for you.
No, I responded to your implied physical threat against me if I didn’t limit my free speech according to your whims. I don’t take orders from you and you’re not the boss of me, so piss off.
It’s not “racial” superiority if everyone is asian. It may be cultural but that’s an altogether different thread. I did point out that the Japanese at one period of history believed they were descendants of their emperor which made them a different “race” of people. This carried over into their imperialist ideals for a pan-asian world. However, that was a long time ago and most of those outdated ideals were long since discarded. I can’t say the same about the western version. You still see remnants of it patronized and kept alive.
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I can say with confidence I have never benefited in the least because of my ethnicity in the U.S. Being a part of a politically invisible minority in the U.S. means even if you are discriminated against there’s limited options. Sometimes you may even have to exact your own justice since sometimes legit grievances fall on very deaf ears.
Of course you would, a redneck is your brother and part of the good ole boy club why would you feel insulted by his remarks?
Prove that those conflicts were based on race and not because of territorial or cultural pursuits. Your claims that the Mongols conquered everyone because of race is comedy in itself. They were equal-opportunity conquerors if there was any such thing.
Incorrect. The mongols did engage in khanate struggles for leadership in different periods of their rule. Also the Mongols were factional tribal groups fighting each other before they were united under genghis.
I imagine that you’ll stew in your own juices at every perceived slight and insult, say nothing, and then exact your vengeance on the white world by acting like an asshole on a message board and make up stories about how you pack a gun. Yeah, you the Asian Superfly!
You’re splitting hairs to call it cultural instead of racial superiority. Be it racial or cultural, all of Asia has it in spades and it is just as ugly as it is in the US. You wanna weasel with definitions, be my guest.
Appreciate if you kept the personal remarks in the pit. Still waiting for an answer to a question I asked you there. But yes an Asian American should have more sensitivity to racism against Asians than to stoop to the same level as their own (perceived) detractors.
I do feel sorry that you feel you have never benefited from your ethnicity. Maybe that explains some of your posts.