Are Americans kind of forced to support LGBT standpoints?

Great Debates
1

Looking at American media as a non-American, I have a feeling like saying anything that isn’t supportive of LGBT standpoints (in a civilized way, not in a hate against gays way) is modern day blasphemy and the biggest taboo out there. You can talk about aborting, drugs, whether guns should be carried on streets and loads of other controversial topics, you can insult religions and religious people as much as you want, and do it on TV. You can insult other countries and ethnicities (which may be illegal, but no one really cares), you can literally be racist against white people and pass it of as “comedy” (just type words Buzzfeed and white) , however, the moment you question for example whether LGBT people should be married or not, you instantly become a religious fanatic hillbilly bigot that can’t count to 10 without using his fingers.

Well…that’s at least how you’d be called if you actually had a chance to say something, but you can’t and Google proved this today, they allow comments on all of their videos, they allow likes/dislikes on all their videos and today they uploaded a random LGBT video and guess on which specific video they decided to ban commenting and the like/dislike option, despite allowing it on all other videos.

The least LGBT supportive thing I could come across in American media is uncomfortable justification sentences like “Don’t take me wrong, I support gays and all, but…I just am not one”, anything over that is a red line where you become a hillbilly, even if you yourself couldn’t care less about religions (religions, because Christianity isn’t the only one, even though it’s implied that it’s the “bible vs gays” and you must choose one)

Worst of all is the hypocrisy that those people that ban comments and likes/dislikes on pro-gay videos will call themselves open minded, democratic and progressive and insult everyone not agreeing with them that they are close minded.

Hate against anyone should not be allowed of course, but hate and civilized democratic dialogue are two completely different things, either everything is ok to talk about or nothing is, you can’t just ban people from talking about LGBT topics and call non-supporters bigoted homophobes and then go ahead and call yourself an open minded democrat, it’s not how it works.

2

Cuz it’s kind of a dick thing to say two consenting adults should be allowed to get married if they’re not hurting each other?

People would look at you the same way if you said it about interracial marriage, right? Well, there you go. YOU don’t have to get gay-married if you don’t want to.

Hell, if you want to think homosexuality is wrong, go for it. But you shouldn’t think that gay people should be denied the same rights every else has because of the way you feel. It’s that simple.

3

I think the difference between many of the issues you mentioned - drugs, guns -is that the fact that you are carrying a gun affects me. On the other hand, someone who happens to be gay marrying someone else who happens to be gay has exactly zero impact on my life unless I’m invited to the wedding.

Why does anyone think they should be able to criticize this? If you don’t want to marry someone of the same sex, don’t marry them! If I’m an employer, what business of mine if I am extending benefits to a same sex spouse versus an opposite sex spouse? Other than claiming to have a direct line to God who says “This Is A Bad Thing”, what rational argument can one make?

4

LGBTQ rights are the cause celebre among younger demographics who missed the civil rights era but still want to feel like they have accomplished something. They’re also nice because LGBTQ rights don’t really come with the same baggage as racial rights, nor the same problems. LGBTQ people tend to echo the demographics of the rest of society. They have higher suicide rates and mental health problems, but they don’t have nearly the issues found in other marginalized groups, so there isn’t really the need to fight as hard over them. If you start talking about black rights, it brings up all sorts of uncomfortable realities like crime rates, poverty rates and incarceration rates and you have to deal with your own issues of privilege. If you’re the kind of person looking for a cause, LGBTQ rights are easy ones and so one that many people are able to feel passionate about without putting much skin in the game. As Black Lives Matters has shown, trying to deal with centuries of racial oppression is really, really hard, saying that wealthy, educated white men should be able to marry each other is comparatively easy. The LGBTQ rights are arguing over wedding cakes with old men, rather than taking a serious look at the real structure of society. It helps that the main vocal anti-LGBTQ group in the country is Mormons who aren’t exactly Nazi skinheads and while they may say mean things, you generally don’t have to worry about them taking to the streets. So the bottom line is that standing up for LGBTQ rights is something that the media can do easily and only risk alienating people that likely aren’t its consumers anyway, so they do it.

5

I’d say in American society historically maligned or marginalized groups are treated with kids’ gloves to some extent. That being a net negative or positive is debatable.

6

Not forced by law (usually,) but there is certainly far more backlash in America in being anti-LGBT than in being pro-LGBT, in terms of societal consequences and social criticism/censure.

7

Cite?

So no one anywhere can say anything at all about this, because today Google blocked comments on one video; got it. That’s some awesome reasoning on display, btw.

You should ring up Bricker; that’s his area of expertise.

Everyone is surely lucky that you’re here to tell us all how it works. :rolleyes:

8

Cultures evolve over time at different rates and over different issues. There was time, not long past, when your view was the over riding view. That was the only side that was ever heard.

But people evolve, when they are no longer willing puppets of the church doctrine, they begin to examine the reasons for positions they formerly just assumed ‘because that’s just how it’s always been.’

There was a time when it was okay to beat your wife and for 8 year olds to work in mines, but over time some cultures moved away from those positions after examining if it needed to be so. Peoples opinions change over time.

In this culture, at this time, this is not a popular opinion. There was a time when you could openly express racist views, but this culture has moved on from that to a more evolved view, such discussion today would indeed not go well.

I for one am glad we’ve evolved passed thinking it’s okay to condemn people for things that are not our business. Government has no place in the Love lives of consulting adults, in a lot of peoples opinion. If churches want a say they can have it, but it’s not encoded in law, the flock comply via free choice.

9

Being tolerant doesn’t mean you have to tolerate intolerance.

Calling somebody who is a bigoted homophobe a bigoted homophobe is a sign of honesty not close-mindedness. Even if the bigoted homophobe in question doesn’t want to see himself that way.

Saying that people should be allowed to say a certain amount of negative things about LGBT people without being called out on it is nonsense. There’s no acceptable amount of bigotry. A person doesn’t have to be murdering gay people for it to qualify as hate. A person who says gay people shouldn’t have equal rights is also acting from hate.

If somebody chooses to act like a bigot, they have to accept the consequences. And that includes people deciding not to give them a forum for their bigotry.

10

Nobody is forced to support LGBTetc . What they ARE (or may need to be) forced to do is to not treat them badly or discriminate against them, because wanting to discriminate against somebody for that kind of reason DOES in fact mean you’re stupid.

11

There is no way to have a civilized dialogue over whether or not I should be treated as a second-class citizen in my own country. Anyone arguing that I don’t deserve the same rights that they enjoy is a bigoted asshole. No amount of dressing up their hate in fancy rhetoric is going to change that, and nothing in my politics requires that I pretend that, really, they’re decent people with whom I’m having a minor philosophical dispute.

12

OP, it’s not at all clear what you’re complaining about. If you want to make a reasoned and cogent argument about why gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry because it’s detrimental to someone or something, you are free to do so. In fact you’re free to do it right on this board as long as it’s not hate speech.

Now, you’re probably not going to like most of the responses you get, but that’s because in many respects (though certainly not all) we live in a relatively civilized society, one that has come a long way (but not yet nearly far enough) in mitigating the problems of misogyny, racism, homophobia, and other forms of bigotry. But society has, nevertheless, come a long way in those respects. Are you possibly complaining about not wanting to come along with it?

13

Dude, if you want to complain about the gays, go right ahead. You’re allowed to do that.

A couple things though.

You don’t have a right to use somebody else’s platform to talk about how much you dislike the gays. So you can do it, but you don’t have the right to demand that we put you on TV to do it. Nobody has to give you a microphone, and nobody has to sit there and listen to you. If you own the microphone go ahead. If someone else owns the microphone they’re allowed to either let you use it, or take it back.

And nobody is obligated to sit there in the audience. It’s not silencing you if people ignore you. Nobody wants to listen to your complaints about the gays? So what?

Also, you don’t have the right to complain about the gays, and then not have people judge you. You want to explain how the gays are ruining America? Go right ahead. You express your opinion about the gays. And then we’ll express our opinion about you. Why do you get to complain about the gays, but then we’re not allowed to complain about you? You go ahead and complain about the gays, and then we’ll talk about you and what we think of you.

Also, in most parts of the country it is completely legal to discriminate against gays. Some cities and states have laws against housing or employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, but most don’t. So just move to Texas and you can fire all the gays you want.

Also, “either everything is OK to talk about or nothing is”, are you fucking serious? Either you’re allowed to complain about the gays with no consequences, or it’s fascism?

14

I don’t particularly like the taste of liver, so I don’t eat it. I’m not compelled to tell those who enjoy liver that their taste for it is wrong. By not telling them I don’t like liver am I supporting their standpoint? Do I hate the taste of liver so much I want to stop others from enjoying it? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

15

Same old same old.

“I should be allowed to talk about whatever I want with zero consequences”.

Nope, that isn’t the way Free Speech works.

16

You mean being a bigot gets more criticism than not being a bigot? Well slap me silly!

17

No, it doesn’t.

18

How does someone carrying a gun affect you?

19

Ask the Parkland students, who currently are making some important points about just that. But I’m not going to get involved in a digression that derails the thread so that’s all I have to say here. It’s obviously a major societal issue that’s been discussed to death in many other threads. It is, BTW, one of the things I was thinking of when I said upthread that society has become more civilized “in many respects (though certainly not all)”.

20

Ask any of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas students that one. Lots of people are affected by others carrying guns.

EDIT: Ninjaed.