Are Britons unable to criticize their own government?

I was actually talking about this the other day with my mother. My brother lives in the midwest, we live in Scotland, and he has recently been saying (after 8 years of living there and 1 year of marriage to an American) how stifled he feels, in relation to voicing his opinion.

Over here, I would be suprised if anyone batted an eyelid if you critisised the government or Tony Blair. It is practically de rigeur.

My brother, though, definitely gets the feeling that he spoke out about most of his beliefs/opinions (which I am sure would run contrary to the average midwestern conservative type) he would get a lot of flak. And consequently, he keeps a lot quieter than he ever did living over here.

This is just based on our experience, but I thought that I would mention it seeing as I was thinking something similar, if opposite, to the OP.

Yes, of course we’re allowed to criticize our government, why just the other day… WHAT THE!!?..SCAPA, IT’S THE THOUGHT BOBBIES!!! YOU’LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE!

Paraphrase: In the UK (especially where I live), pretty much everyone disagrees with the government , so when you criticize it you fit right in. In the USA (particularly in the area where my brother lives) they either agree with the government, or at least agree with the government more than with my brother. Therefore, if he were to speak up everyone would disagree with him, and perhaps criticize him harshly (“Gol-durn furriner coming over here and spoutin’ his socialist blather! Even if he does have a really neat accent…”)
I doubt this says anything in particular about the ability to criticize the govt. It says more about how it’s uncomfortable to disagree with the majority, especially if you are something of an outsider yourself.

What gcarroll said. There’s a difference, a big one, between feeling uncomfortable when your opinion is unpopular, or having to listen to the opposite view from your own, and risking being thrown in jail JUST because you criticized the government.

Who was the last person incarcerated (or even prosecuted) in the US or the UK merely for stating an opinion? Long time ago, I bet. Of course, if you state your opinion that some government person ought to be shot, and that you’re just the one to do it, next Thursday at 4 p.m., that’s a separate issue.

Of course we can criticize our Govt., we have the same freedom of speech that you guys in the USA do, we can call the Queen a toss pot and any other person an incompetant idiot without fear of the Gestapo kicking our doors in at 2 in the morning.
The main, and really annoying part of writing to our MP/local councillor, is that seldom if ever do we get a response frome him/her personally unlike the congressmen of the US who I believe reply in person to the writer. All we get is a pre-printed letter from some secretary or other thanking us for taking the trouble to write…and that’s it.
I have written to my MP on 4 occasions and each time received the same letter back.
As for a written constitution, why do we need one.
What you simply can’t do is stand on a soap box and openly incite armed rebellion against the Govt but I understand this also applies to the USA…I may be wrong.

The US Constitution has the following language:

This was passed in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights that was needed to get the Anti-Federalists to consent to the Constitution.

Thus, while such thinking can certainly occur–and it was a sufficient worry that the framers of the US Constitution felt a need to guarantee against it, it is possible to Constitutionally address the issue.

Mind you, quite a lot of people of any political persuasion you care to name very conveniently forget this particular sentence of the Constitution.

And at what point was he arrested and thrown into jail for this? That he is surrounded by flaming ass-hats doesn’t mean that he’s in danger of jail. In other words, you’re taking a social deficiency and ignorantly extending that to posit law that doesn’t exist.

He should name a government that has never done that. Unfortunately, the UK would not qualify. A jackass in power will abuse that power, regardless of what the law states.

That’s what you get in the States as well. A Senator can represent millions of people, they don’t have the time or inclination to answer every letter they get.

As others have noted, the UK does have constitutional law, just not a single Constitution a la the United States. In fact, while the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights were innovative for their clear (for the time) language and completeness, they are largely based on earlier English legislation such as the Bill of Rights 1689 (outlaws ‘cruel and unusual punishments’, excessive fines, punishment without conviction, enshrines the right to bear arms [but only for Protestants], the right to petition the king, etc.).

The European Convention on Human Rights was incorporated into British law in the Human Rights Act 1998, including freedom of speech.

Not that we didn’t have it before that, previously though the fact that it wasn’t proscribed by law meant we had the right to do it.

Well of course we Brits can criticize our Government … if we couldn’t we’d have to spend all our time talking about the weather.

Oh! Wait a minute … :wink:

Julie

Two words: Spitting Image. :wink:

I don’t know where you got that idea. It’s pretty unheard-of to receive anything but a form-letter from a congressman. Senators have constituencies ranging from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of people, and Representatives represent about 800,000 each.

You are much more likely to get a personal response from state level legislators, though. Especially in New Hampshire.

What I want to know is: how can an American be so spectacularly ignorant ?

Apologies to Marley/Friedo and anyone else but I honestly thought if you guys wrote your congressman you got a personal reply back…I’ll go for a lie down now. :smack:

That’s a bit harsh. Other than lofty constitutional guarantees, I wouldn’t know the first thing about the practicalities of free speech in the US.

I’m with Crusoe - there’s no reason why Joel should be overly informed about the British constitution (or lack of it :wink: ).

Hell, the very fact that Joel hasn’t automatically believed his source but has come here to validate the information shows that he is far from ignorant!

Anyway, as evidence that we do have freedom of speech i hereby offer myself. :slight_smile:

I’m a Web Developer, but my monthly coin comes from my employers the British Civil Service - which makes me a Civil Servant.

If the government of this country restricted the public’s free speech, then they would restrict mine (and my fellow Civil Servants) even more so. Yet my free speech is restricted in no way. I am only bound by two important rules:

  1. I have signed and am therefore bound by the Official Secrets Act which prevents me from disclosing classified information.

  2. As a Civil Servant my allegience is to the Crown, not the Government. Therefore, as the Goverment of the Day (whatever their political persuation) is the vehicle of the Crown’s Authority, i must carry out the duties I’m given with impartiality and without political predjudice (unless carrying out said actions is illegal or goes against my conscience).
    At the end of the day there is probably very little practical difference between the US and Great Britain in terms of freedom of speech. As Governer Quinn pointed out, if anything our Prime Ministers are given a much rougher ride in the media and public eye than their Presidential counterparts (i highly recommend watching Prime Ministers Question Time).

This isn’t, of course an indication that Joe Briton is any more politically savvy than Joe Yank, he isn’t. I think, however (and this is, of course, purely my own opinion) that we just tend to separate Patriotism from Government a bit more. By this i mean that we don’t automatically equate criticism of the government with criticism of the country quite as much as Americans appear to do.

I wonder whether this confusion over the liberties over here has arisen due to reports on the recent Hutton Enquiry and (allegedly) dodgy defence dossier which was used to justify the war with Iraq.

To an outside observer, these may appear to offer evidence that the Government does not officially tolerate any contrary views and comes down hard on those who speak out against it.

Whilst - obviously - no government is going to be happy if it’s employees speak out against its actions, the British Government has no right to deliberately target those who do.

If Dr. Kelly (whose tragic suicide led to the Hutton enquiry) was still alive, then the Government could no more prosecute or imprison him for his claims that the defence dossier was “sexed up” by the Government than you or I, for example, could prosecute a friend for suggesting that we were exagerating when we told them how big the fish was that we caught last summer.

As far as i’m aware the only grounds they would have for prosecution would be if he had signed (and subsequently broken) the Official Secrets Act.

Alternatively, if he were a Civil Servant then there would concievably be grounds for dismissal on the grounds that he was engaging in political activity or had irrepairably damaged his impartiality but even that would have been tenuous. More likely they would have allowed the fact that he had pretty much killed his career in government advice/the Civil Service serve as his “punishment.”

I doubt that there has ever been a congressperson who has responded to every single piece of mail he or she received, but I can see how one might get that impression. Every so often, a congressperson will answer a letter (that’s every so often for us letter-writers, that is, but probably a few dozen a day for the congressperson), and when one does, you can bet that the person who wrote the original letter is going to flaunt it. On the other hand, when a writer receives no reply or a form letter, they usually don’t go out of their way to say “I wrote to my senator, and didn’t get anything back!”. So you only hear about the ones that work.

This should surprise nobody. After all, the First Continental Congress ended up in a petition for redress and restoration of the colonists’ ancient rights as free Englishmen (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/resolves.htm).

It was only after the Government dismissed their petition for recovery and protection of their English rights that they came to the conclusion that this Government had abdicated its legitimacy by refusing to live up to the guarantees of such documents as the Bill of Rights of 1689.