If you’re some lowly guy on a carrier, with nothing to do with flight operations, do you ever get to go out in the sunlight? Or are you trapped in the tunnels?
The flight deck is off limits to non-essential personnel during flight operations. There may be decks available above the flight deck where you could see daylight and the flights, though.
“Tunnels?” You make it sound like the mines in Lord of the Rings.
What UncleBill says is correct, only folks with business on the flight deck are allowed during flight ops. During cyclic flight ops this pretty much means all day but there are brief windows after recovery and preparation before the next launch. When I was doing this the day ran on a 1 hour and 45 minute cycle.
Since everyone else on a carrier has a job too there isn’t a lot of free time between working and sleeping. People can view from a small weather deck on the island called “vulture’s row” without flight deck gear on but hearing protection is still a pretty good idea. I’ve seen a lot of news reporting from vulture’s row on various carriers. A good place for the uninitiated to watch flight deck operations without being in danger.
The hangar deck is open for the most part and not dark as you might think. There are four enourmous openings for the deck edge elevators which are shaded by the flight deck but let in a lot of natural light.
There are a few hangout spots like the fantail but they are off limits during recovery as having a plane fly into you will ruin your day. The same is true of the port (left) catwalk at the edges of the flight deck, not a place you want to stick your head up during recovery.
And FWIW the flight deck doesn’t discriminate against the “lowly” at least as far as rank is concerned. A good portion of the folks working on the flight deck will be plane captains, usually E2s or E3s, affectionately dubbed “turd shirts” for their brown jersies, float coats and helmets. Regardless of paygrade and how unglamourous the job may be every single person working on a carrier flight deck is a skilled professional. The flight deck is too dangrous a place to allow amateurs. Everyone there works hard to earn the extra flight deck pay in their checks. I hope it’s more than the $85 a month I got.
And FWIW the flight deck doesn’t discriminate against the “lowly” at least as far as rank is concerned. A good portion of the folks working on the flight deck will be plane captains, usually E2s or E3s, affectionately dubbed “turd shirts” for their brown jersies, float coats and helmets. Regardless of paygrade and how unglamourous the job may be every single man and women working on a carrier flight deck is a skilled professional. The flight deck is too dangrous a place to allow amateurs. Everyone there works hard to earn the extra flight deck pay in their checks. I hope it’s more than the $85 a month I got.
I was going to add that the carrier deck is a dangerous place to be when flight ops are going on, and a smart crewperson would NOT WANT to be on the deck during such goings-on unless that was their job. It’s one of the most hazardous, if not the most hazardous, area of the ship. You’re probably safer working with a carrier’s nuke reactor than on an active flight deck.
In my last couple years as a jarhead, I was in an F-18 training squadron, which meant carrier quals. I was a white shirt (final checker) and as much as I enjoyed the adrenaline rush, the flight deck is one scary ass place, especially at night. UncleBill and Padeye have answered the question. Even if it were allowed, there just isn’t room. There were always a bunch of ship’s crewmembers behind the island, on vultures row and a few in the catwalks, but not actually in the flight ops area.
I was in the wrong place at the right time once and got blown past the island and nearly overboard by the exhaust of an A-7. When I finished throwing up, a sailor behind the island who was an off duty arresting gear dude told me that the navy couldn’t pay him enough to be “out there”. This was a day after an F-14 turned a guy into a pinball in the GSE area.
But I have to say that watching the yellow shirts, the guys who direct the aircraft and are mostly low ranking folks, was like watching ballet. The big picture of flight ops is really a beautiful thing to watch. I loved the experience, but hated every second at the same time. Scary as hell, but the choreography that is going on is really beautiful. I met a lot of sailors who loved to watch from the “outside” but generally most of them had no desire to get any closer.
How many injuries/fatalities occur for a given tour?
Heck, under the right circumstances, even civilians are allowed on the flight deck. A friend of mine served aboard the Constellation, and when it was in port, he took a couple of us on a tour of the ship, including the hanger, the flight deck, and the bridge. Of course, there were no flight operations going on (since it was in port, the planes were not on board - they’d been sent off to the naval air station). If you ever get a chance to tour a carrier, jump at it. It’s an amazing experience.
You liked that work too, huh Turbo Dog. 
I worked both my cruises as a final checker in VF-24 with F-14As and loved every minute of it. Of course I look at what I did differently now that I have a sense of my mortality. There is a reason 20 year old guys do this for a living.
Final checkers wear a white jersey, sometimes with black checkerboard on their float coats and a green helmet. Generally three people per squadron and they are the last ones to physically inspect the plane before flight and make sure it’s safe. As the plane taxies to the catapult we’d walk around and underneath to check panels and latches, make sure the air bags were inflated (the armpits of the F-14 swing wing), check the launch bar, N2 dashpots and tail hook and make sure the flaps and slats extended properly. I’d actually stand in the nose wheel well in front of the nose gear, walking backwards as the plane taxied while checking guages. It’s a freaking miracle I survived stupid shit like that. Flight controls were only tested seconds before launch when the plane was on the catapult at military power. Then the cat officer would give a signal for the pilot to go to afterburner. We’d have to check that the two engines are in sync because they are far enough apart on an F-14 that assmetrical thrust would put the plane into a spin. When we gave a thumbs up the cat officer would give the signal to launch and a salute to the aircrew. The wing would pass over the head of the forward checker and the two after checkers would be so close to the afterburner flame it wasn’t unkown to singe a guy’s beard now and again.
You had to be there I suppose. I thought it was a blast when I was doing it. I had a chance to do two weeks on the Connie about a year after I rotated to shore duty so I did it to get skins (flight deck pay) for the month. A new guy wanted to see the deck during ops so I gave him the same orientation most people get. I told him to keep his head on a swivel and hang onto my belt. We did a quick walk while I showed him all the placed she shouldn’t be around various aircraft. His eyes were like saucers when we got back to the catwalk but it actually spooked me a little even though I did it every day for a long time.
The accident rate isn’t that high spit. We actually did a nine month deployment on the Connie without a serious injury on the flight deck. Mind you we had a fatality just before and just after the cruise and put an F-14 in the drink during but the crew of that plane escaped with nothing worse than a sprained neck.
That had to be some paperwork.
[sub]I swear, we need a ‘war stories’ forum on the board.[/sub]
So random crewmen are allowed to wander around the hangar deck? This came up because we were wondering if someone who worked in the bowels of the ship, like a reactor tech, would ever see the sun, since their quarters, mess area, rec area, work area, etc. would all be in windowless compartments. It sounds like there isn’t as much restriction on movement as I thought.
Circumstances permitting, on holidays there can be barbeques, soccer games, etc. on the flight deck. This is just from seeing the images on TV.
Sure, just as flight deck people can wander around down in the darkness. Each time out, the first couple of days I was always hopelessly lost in the ships so just wandered around. As long as it wasn’t classified areas or officer country, it was pretty much free reign. Once you start flight ops though, the hours are hell so if you aren’t working, you just sleep.
I hear ya Padeye. I don’t think I would do it now. It was bad enough when I thought I was invincible, worrying about a new pilot goosing the engine and sucking you down an intake, hoping you don’t slip or trip while walking with the bird inside a wheelwell, hoping a bad landing doesn’t happen, etc. The door for a tiedown point near the hook wasn’t quite flush on a bird once and it caught the edge of my cranial and I was dragged along about 5 feet. Took a couple days for my pulse to drop below 200:)
First time doing it was terrifying, but what a rush it was to be in near blackout condition, 10 feet from the pipes in afterburner, holding onto the padeye when the cat fires as the jet wash tried to roll you around, while 50 feet away a boltering plane is throwing up a 20 foot roostertail of sparks. Now that I remember the pace, I don’t think I could physically do it today, even if I wasn’t scared. Plus, I don’t think I could eat another slider…ever:)
At least on the USS Saipan LHA-2 (Helicopter Assault Ship) I was on, we did PT (exercises) on the flight deck when not they were not in Flight Opertations. It was not off-limits during the day. Nights I don’t specifically recall.
Damn, TurboDog, you’ve had some choice jobs for interesting stories.
Suprisingly little in this case, at least for us in the squadron. It was a bit of a freak accident in that it had nothing to do with the plane ir pilot error. One of the arresting cables was mistakenly set for a lighter, slower airplane and the plane happened to catch that one, the four wire. I presume someone was in a world of shit for that but never learned any details.
The arresting gear is a giant hydralic cylinder that absorbs the K.E. of the plane like giant screen door closer or shock absorber. When the plane pulled the cable against too little resistance it tore the cables out of the deck. As soon as the pilot hit the deck he put the thottles to military power (full power but non-afterburner) but it was as they say out of the envelope as it went over the angle deck. The plane fell like a stone… one with two screaming TF-30 turbofan engines pushing it and the crew ejected at the last possible millisecond. The plane was striking the water as the front seat came out. The downward velocity put the seats out of their envelope and neither parachute opened and the pilot barely separated from his seat before hitting the water. They were recovered by the plane guard helo and everyone lived happily ever after except for the guy in #4 arrestor room.
FWIW at that time we had the longest safe flight record ever for F-14s and we kept it because the accident was totally beyond our control and all the safety systems worked to keep the crew alive. We lost the record a few months later when one spun in. Saved the crew but never found the cause of the flameout that made the plane spin.
Sliders, argh! Well, it was food of a sort I suppose and the pickled cauliflower and onions they served in the forward mess were the closest thing we had to fresh vegtables at sea. Man, getting your helmet caught on a moving plane would scare the bejeebers out of me too. I’ve taken a few tumbles down the deck and been toasted by more jet exhaust than is really healthy.
My handle here wasn’t an intentional reference to that but a nickname a boss used as it fits my real name.
SmackFu: The hangar bay is an open area not like engineering spaces and shops so it’s pretty much unrestricted as long as you don’t molest the planes or anything. Suprisingly few non-aviation people hang around there though. They encourage people to use the flight deck for jogging between flight ops but for the most part it’s just aircrews and the marine detachment doing it.
Living on a carrier is odd becaue there are 5,000-6,000 people but you never see them all at the same time once you get on the ship. Every one eats in the same mess but it’s done in such an assembly line manner you don’t see more than a few hundred at once. E-6 and below which make up an overwhelming majority of the crew eat in an aft main mess or the forward “slider” mess for lunch and quick breakfast. CPOs have a degregated mess and separate mess decks for commissioned officers.
The rare times you’ll see a few thousand guys in one place are at special holiday meals like “steel beach” picnics in the hangar bay.
So what kept the ship from running over the downed plane? Is the angle great enough that errant aircraft air cast out of the way?
Yes. Here’s a picture of the Connie, the ship the accedent happened on, with the stripes on the flight deck freshly painted so you can see the centerline of the landing area.
The angle isn’t as extreme as it looks in the Constellation photo so here’s a view of the Carl Vinson from a less skewed angle. The paint is faded but you can make out a dashed line in the landing area.
Actually I’ve pretty much had crap jobs that just happened to let me do interesting stuff on occasion. I still don’t know what I want to do when I grow up:) As exciting as the flight deck is, the rest of the ship cancels it out and more. When flight ops are done, I was still maintenance and a CDI so had to fix all the broke planes. Flight op days meant 16 hours of work at least and I then would always get lost trying to find the berthing area, not to mention those G-D shin buster portals.
I really enjoyed the flight deck in a perverted way, but just hated ships. I never would have survived a WestPac. I would have jumped overboard. Carrier quals were only about two weeks which lasted forever. Strange stuff happens on carriers, especially if you stop paying attention to everything for even a blink of an eye. You may have seen it already, but if not here is a videoof a guy getting sucked into an A-6. It is number 3. If I remember right, his float coat caught a probe which kept him from becoming ground round. It was days before the guy could even talk.
I got a great mpeg through email last week of an F/A-18 collapsing a main gear on the wire and the fishtailing almost takes out a couple of guys. I’m still trying to find it on the net but if I can’t I’ll email it to you.
Sort of carrier related, but too cool not to share is this story.
[b}Padeye** I forgot all about the pickled veggies. Thank you so much for reminding me… shmuck! 
I never really thought about it until you mentioned it, but for all the people that are on board, you really never do see many people. Except for wandering around trying to see the engine rooms, cats, etc, the only people I ran into in walkways were people painting and the occasional Mardet herd running a drill. Towards the end coming in to port the deck was usually packed with guys playing football or just hanging out. Of course if you live on a ship, it’s probably all old news so you just do your job and stay out of people’s way.
And what is it with you swabbies and taste in movies? On two separate quals, two different ships, the only thing playing on the monitor in the ready room every day was Lair of the White Worm. I must have watched that movie a dozen times. It was like a traffic accident.
My dad was on the Constellation for a while, and he would jog on the flight deck sometimes when there were no flight operations running, and at that point he had nothing to do with aviation.
I got to go on a Dependent’s Day cruise on it once, and had the pleasure of walking on the flight deck and watching an airshow from the port-side catwalk. The air show didn’t include flight ops, though – I assume the planes came from a nearby airfield. It did, however, include planes breaking the sound barrier, which was immensely cool. (“hey, that plane is hauling ass, but isn’t making any noise…” BOOM!)
Padeye, I know I’ve been told the answer to this before, but what are the two dinguses sticking out on the front of the Connie? I remember these being a somewhat distinguishing feature of that ship, but I can’t remember their function. I noticed that they’re missing in all the recent pictures on the constellation web site: http://www.navy.mil/homepages/cv64/noflash/media/photos/photoship.htm