Are Coast Guard sinking reports public records?

[wei_ji]

Ravenman Quote:

“But I do have to correct you: they do not check. If they do, it is a violation of the Hatch Act and almost certainly the Federal bribery statute, which prohibits any official action undertaken with the understanding of or as a result of a campaign contribution, and is punishable by 15 years in the pokey.”

Well, you are likely entirely right on the law, but I have a federal official on tape (confirmed as legal by my attorney at the time) grossly and unequivocally distorting to her advantage (polite way of putting it) a federal-court-ordered, constitutional process it was her responsibility to deliver. Depending on whether you apply federal criminal law on denial of civil rights, under Title 18 USC (as opposed to lesser misconduct law), that could be around 10 years in the pokey–if you can prove it. I guess it’s a cost/benefits calculation for them.

Again, sorry for the rant. If I get any more “delays” I WILL try it your way–though I will be expecting disappointment based on my experience.

Howye Quote:

“Maybe I am misinterpreting you, but don’t think of a FOIA request as a bad thing. You may not get anywhere with Public Affairs simply because they are not setup to handle this type of request. The Coast Guard expects these types of requests and has a system in place for them. It might take a little while to dig up the information or get back to you, but using the FOIA procedure will almost certainly get you an answer if not the actual information.” --Howye

My chagrin at a FOIA comes from grieving for the day when you could just call agencies like the Coast Guard, and if the first contact didn’t know the answer to your question you would be transferred immediately to someone who did. With the CG, a crisp exchange of information would ensue(like “msrobyn,” above, special thanks to her for delivering it by the numbers), and the issue would be resolved in under 2 minutes.

I understand the modern need to manage huge amounts of information and a higher demand for it (and for tight control over that information), and thus a corresponding need for a formal system, but to me a FOIA feels like suing the government–it is, after all, a process carefully defined under law and with the option of lawsuits at many points (if I understand it properly). It makes me feel like I’m making a “Federal Case” out of a simple desire to know what happened to a boat I worked on 41 years ago.

That’s my only objection, at the end of the day. In any event, I have a process now, thanks to all who kindly responded to this question and gave their advice on how to proceed.

I’m grateful, satisfied, and finally on my way to getting my sinking report.

[Musicat]

@Boyo_Jim

What’s the name of the boat?

SS Minnow.

[wei_ji]

@Musicat

SS Minnow.

I repeat: To those who took the time to offer advice on this, thank you. It’s very useful and appreciated.

[anson2995]

@howye

Maybe I am misinterpreting you, but don’t think of a FOIA request as a bad thing.

I’ll second this. The FOIA process is the way they’ve designed for folks to get access to government records. There are people at each agency whose only job is to respond to FOIA requests. They know what documents are available and how to get them. I file FOIAs by the boatload, and I almost always encounter friendly and helpful people.

Any other route – like contacting your congressman first – is not likely to be productive. If you’re in a restaurant and want a glass of water you ask the waiter. That’s what he does.

Good luck.

[wei_ji]

@anson2995

I’ll second this. The FOIA process is the way they’ve designed for folks to get access to government records. There are people at each agency whose only job is to respond to FOIA requests. They know what documents are available and how to get them. I file FOIAs by the boatload, and I almost always encounter friendly and helpful people.

Any other route – like contacting your congressman first – is not likely to be productive. If you’re in a restaurant and want a glass of water you ask the waiter. That’s what he does.

Good luck.

Thank you.

[bump]

@howye

What is the retention period for this type of report? An accident that occurred 41 years ago may simply be past their retention period and they have no wish to tell you that.

More than likely, they still have the report, but it’s a paper report buried deep in some bank of file cabinets in Alaska or Washington somewhere, and they don’t want to go digging for it without good reason.

[wei_ji]

@bump

More than likely, they still have the report, but it’s a paper report buried deep in some bank of file cabinets in Alaska or Washington somewhere, and they don’t want to go digging for it without good reason.

Agreed. I have a clue as to where it might be, due to some email exchanges on another matter with a woman at a repository of historical resources in Alaska. I asked routinely if she had anything on this. She had SOMETHING on the Marietta-J, but it was unclear what, and she said she could only release such information with the permission of the Coast Guard (this was while I was still trying to get the CG to respond). I don’t know if it’s the official report I’m seeking, but if the FOIA doesn’t produce the SPECIFIED result I want, I’ll give them a heads-up on this as a possible repository to check. In fact, if I’m smart, I’ll include that information with the FOIA.

[MsRobyn]

@wei_ji

Agreed. I have a clue as to where it might be, due to some email exchanges on another matter with a woman at a repository of historical resources in Alaska. I asked routinely if she had anything on this. She had SOMETHING on the Marietta-J, but it was unclear what, and she said she could only release such information with the permission of the Coast Guard (this was while I was still trying to get the CG to respond). I don’t know if it’s the official report I’m seeking, but if the FOIA doesn’t produce the SPECIFIED result I want, I’ll give them a heads-up on this as a possible repository to check. In fact, if I’m smart, I’ll include that information with the FOIA.

What about going to your library and using their databases of old newspapers to find articles about this; there may be an article that summarizes the official report. What is it about the official report that makes it so important to you that you’re going through all this to get it? These questions aren’t intended to be hostile, but they may guide you as to how much effort you’re willing to go to get what you’re looking for. I’ve used these very questions to work through how much effort I’m willing to expend.

(BTW, you don’t have to answer them here. They’re just something to think about.)

[wei_ji]

@MsRobyn

What about going to your library and using their databases of old newspapers to find articles about this; there may be an article that summarizes the official report. What is it about the official report that makes it so important to you that you’re going through all this to get it? These questions aren’t intended to be hostile, but they may guide you as to how much effort you’re willing to go to get what you’re looking for. I’ve used these very questions to work through how much effort I’m willing to expend.

(BTW, you don’t have to answer them here. They’re just something to think about.)

Who’s hostile, damn it (chuckle)? I appreciate any effort at all to help me out. I had a collision with city hall and bureaucracy that made me implacable towards both. Sometimes it shows.

I’m interested in the official CG sinking report because it will tell me the exact location and circumstances of the sinking, which I’ve wondered about from time to time over many years. I worked on that boat for two summers, knew the men on it, Norm, “Fuzzy,” Erling, and Bud in close association over several months (I pulled one of them out of the bay a week earlier, drunk and busy drowning himself at 3 am), and I wondered how they could be rammed without seeing the threat coming. What time of day was it? Who was at the wheel? What were the weather and visibility conditions? Were they hugging the shoreline or in the middle of the Sound? Was the radar on? Were they at fault or was it the powered barge?

Just questions that stick in your mind over many years and to which you would like some answers, if they are available at reasonable effort. Of course it gets your back up when a citizen making a simple inquiry about records can’t get a definitive answer of some sort from a federal agency after repeated tries over a year’s time. I suppose I’ve become a bit stubborn about it now and I want to see that blankety-blank report. They have a public relations office, yet I got a better response and answers from disinterested people responding on the Internet.

Local newspapers wouldn’t have the level of information I seek, if they covered it at all. Boat sinkings without deaths would get a brief note, but no more detail than I have from the captain’s wife in a letter to my mother at the time, which told the simple facts without much detail. Understandably, it was a bitter subject for her. I remember they had about 20 minutes to get off in the skiff (not much time, actually) and the seine (net) later floated up badly ripped, which was lucky. That’s about it.

[GusNSpot]

FWIW: My BIL who is a retired CC officer.

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Richard

   Unless there were casualties, the CG would not keep a record beyond 5 years. Only source of info would be archives of newspapers  and magazines .... Seattle Intelligenia or something from Juneau. Possibly National Fisherman. If you remember any names of the crew, try Facebook or Google.

I did fisheries patrols in Alaska in 1972 from Dixon Entrance (Southeast) to the western tip of the Aleutians and up to upper reaches of the Bering Sea.

R. 

Yes, trying to help a guy. Me, I’m to chicken to work a fish boat up there. he he he
Thanks for the imput, I will pass it along…
Gus

[MsRobyn]

Since I’ve got some time on my hands, I’ll be happy to search ProQuest to see if I can find any articles about the wreck. I can’t make promises, but I’ll try.

[MsRobyn]

I just did some basic searches both in my university’s library, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, and the Juneau Empire. I could not find anything, but that’s probably because “Marietta” is a fairly common place name, so I found lots about Marietta, Georgia and Marietta, Ohio, but nothing about “FV Marietta-J”.

HOWEVER…

I can make a few more suggestions. I would try the Alaska state agency that oversees commercial fishing operations; they may have something. You can also try the state historical society; they may have information about sunken boats in their archives. I would also try your local library (assuming you’re still in Alaska) because they probably have old issues of newspapers on microfilm or microfiche, or tell you where to find them; they may also have other resources or ideas you can use.

As GusNSpot’s BiL pointed out, however, this is a 41-year-old accident. You may not find anything that has as much detail as you seem to be looking for, and you will have to be happy with that. Also, these steps require much more legwork than filling out a simple FOIA request. But you may also get lucky and find a copy of the Coast Guard report in one of these resources. Ya never know what you’ll find. Srsly.