Are couples who weren't married in church living in sin?

[Indiana_Jones]

My father is a nondenominational Protestant minister. He has performed marriage ceremonies not only in churches, but also outside, in someone’s living room, and the lobby of a resort hotel. The location of a marriage ceremony does not matter, what is important about it is the public announcement of your intentions.

[cher3]

I’ve mentioned this in other threads, but the Catholic church does, in fact, consider civil marriage or any ceremony performed by anyone other than a Catholic priest to be inadequate. My husband was a lapsed Catholic and wanted to return to the church as a full member. We were required to have a Catholic ceremony even though we had been married 15 years before in a Presbyterian church by an ordained minister–white gown, flowers, tuxedo, cake, the whole schmear. If we had not done this my husband would not have been permitted to participate in the Eucharist.

[AWB]

My wife and I were married in a Congregational church (which is descended from the Puritans, BTW). Our minister explained that in the Congregational church, marriage was originally seen as a civil matter that the church really had no business in. But its members wanted to have the lavish ceremonies that their Catholic neighbors were having. So they officiated at cermonies that were as lavish as the participants wanted. But marriage remained a covenant between the couple and God. In the Catholic church, it is a sacrament, which makes it holy.

[Wandering_Pilgrim]

First of all I just want to point out,I am a Bible believing Christian and want to say that if anyone ever says to you that such a such thing is in the bible, have them point it out to you,chapter and verse…Until they do than it is all hogwash. Now on the topic of hogwash…It says nothing in the bible about being married in the church. For one thing,when scripture mentions the church it is referring to the congregation (the people)not the building. I have two friends who are also as I am (Christian) and they were married before a JP, so no you are not in sin if this is how you were married. It is important to be married before God and to do it legally…it is also good to have your friends and family there to share in such a beautiful moment that is created by God. I find there are tons of misconceptions of what the bible says like for example, God help those who helps themselves, no such verse in the bible at all. So don’t believe all you hear to be in the bible lots or people try to twist the truth of scripture to fit into their little of view of what they believe to be correct. Well I will stop here before I turn this into a book. I hope I helped a little.

[jmullaney]

*Originally posted by cher3 *
I’ve mentioned this in other threads, but the Catholic church does, in fact, consider civil marriage or any ceremony performed by anyone other than a Catholic priest to be inadequate.

That is not officially true. Although marriage is encouraged in a church, this is not an absolute. Nor is the ceremony performed in the strictest sense by anyone other than the two people involved.

See:
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/matri.html#MARRIAGE
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/matri.html#CELEBRATION
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/matri.html#CONSENT

1623. “In the Latin Church, it is ordinarily understood that the spouses, as
      ministers of Christ’s grace, mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of
      Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the Eastern
      liturgies the minister of this sacrament (which is called ‘Crowning’) is the priest
      or bishop who, after receiving the mutual consent of the spouses, successively
      crowns the bridegroom and the bride as a sign of the MARRIAGE covenant.”

     1630. "The priest (or deacon) who assists at the celebration of a MARRIAGE
     receives the consent of the spouses in the name of the Church and gives the
     blessing of the Church. The presence of the Church's minister (and also of the
     witnesses) visibly expresses the fact that MARRIAGE is an ecclesial reality. "

     1631. "This is the reason why the Church normally requires that the faithful
     contract MARRIAGE according to the ecclesiastical form. Several reasons
     converge to explain this requirement:[Cf. Council of Trent: DS 1813-1816;
     CIC, can. 1108.]
     - Sacramental MARRIAGE is a liturgical act. It is therefore appropriate that it
     should be celebrated in the public liturgy of the Church;
     - MARRIAGE introduces one into an ecclesial order, and creates rights and
     duties in the Church between the spouses and towards their children; - Since
     MARRIAGE is a state of life in the Church, certainty about it is necessary
     (hence the obligation to have witnesses);
     - The public character of the consent protects the 'I do' once given and helps
     the spouses remain faithful to it."

[pkbites]

I should have mentioned this is in fact a catholic school.
I am not catholic, nor were any of my relatives so I’m rather ignorant of their doctrin.My wife is a “non practicing” catholic. My son (15 year old sophomore) is only required to take 1 spiritual class per year , and this is the first teacher to be contoversial, so I’m not yanking him out. (The school is otherwise excellent.) My other 2 kids also went to this school (both graduated) with no problems.(:rolleyes: well, no problems caused by the teacher. My oldest almost got deported and they thought the only way my daughter would ever get out of school is if they burned the sonovabitch down.) I sent my kids to a religious school so they wouldn’t be indoctrinated by the lies of public schools (like evolution). But telling them their parents are going to hell? That’s just mean!

[Bricker]

I express no opinion about the various Protestant faiths.

However, if this is a Roman Catholic school, then the advice propounded by the teacher is, at best, incomplete - and at worst, disastrously wrong.

To sum up: in Roman Catholicism, there is no requirement to get married “in a church,” but there is a requirement to observe the laws of the Church concerning marriage - in fact, this is one of six precepts of the Church. So while you’d be wrong to say you must be married in a church, you’d be right to say you must be married in the eyes of the church.

A couple married in a civil ceremony only is not married according to the laws of the Church. However, there is no rule that requires an elaborate wedding with gowns and flower girls. The Church may simply bless the union. This indicates that the Church has determined that no impediments, such as a previous marriage, exist.

A Church-sanctioned wedding normally takes place in the parish of either party, or, in the case of a mixed marriage, in the parish of the Catholic party. Dispensations from these requirements are common, as is a priest presiding along with a minister or rabbi.

In short: a marriage conducted by a justice of the peace, in Roman Catholic tradition, is insufficient to qualify as a sacramental marriage, and since failing to obey the laws of the Church concerning marriage is a sin, one could be said to be living in sin.

However, there is no requirement to be married “in a church.”

• Rick

[cher3]

I hate to alarm you pkbites, but the Catholic Church doesn’t consider evolutionary theory to be antithetical to its teachings. If you want to protect your kids from science, you’ll have to find another denomination.

[jmullaney]

cher3!!! I know we are supposed to be fighting ignorance, but let’s not cut off our nose to spite our face here!

[manhattan]

OK. Factual part of the OP is asked and answered.

I’ll shoot y’all off to Great Debates for the rest of it.

[Polycarp]

Great and insightful answers. Which reduces me to having to perpetrate a hijack of sorts:

The answer to the OP is No. Sin is a wilderness in the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt, which the Children of Israel skirted during the Exodus. Very few people live there. Consult the maps in the back of most Bibles for the location.

It should be pointed out, however, that the converse of the OP is valid. Since most inhabitants of Sin are Moslems, vanishingly few of them were married in church.

[tracer]

Captain Amazing wrote:

You could ask her for a copy of her Ketubah.

The last time I showed someone my Ketubah in public, I was arrested for indecent exposure.

[The_Ryan]

*Originally posted by pkbites *
** I sent my kids to a religious school so they wouldn’t be indoctrinated by the lies of public schools (like evolution). **

Lies?!? It’s one thing to doubt evolution, but to call it lies? Do you really think that evolutionists are intentionally misleading people?

[doreen]

A Church-sanctioned wedding normally takes place in the parish of either party, or, in the case of a mixed marriage, in the parish of the Catholic party. Dispensations from these requirements are common, as is a priest presiding along with a minister or rabbi.

In short: a marriage conducted by a justice of the peace, in Roman Catholic tradition, is insufficient to qualify as a sacramental marriage, and since failing to obey the laws of the Church concerning marriage is a sin, one could be said to be living in sin.

Actually, it’s a little more liberal than this. In the case of an interfaith wedding,under certain circumstances the bishop can permit a Catholic to marry in a ceremony of a different faith or even in a secular ceremony conducted by a public official.But I think that’s a little too detailed to expect it to be covered in a 15 year old’s religion class, especially since I suspect “in a church” is not a direct quote ( “in the Church” is more likely,in my opinion ) and I have a feeling the “going to hell” was an inference on someone’s part

pk bites - Like others have said, Catholicism has no problem with evolution (in fact, I first heard of it in a Catholic school), but one of the main purposes (if not the main purpose)of a religious school is indoctrination into that religion

I assume that even though your wife is a non-practicing Catholic, you are not raising your children to be Catholic.If they attend a Catholic school, they have likely been taught that any number of things are sins ( missing Mass without a good reason, not obeying the rules of fast and abstinence,not making your Easter duty, etc ) that non-Catholics generally don’t believe to be sinful.Have you never explained to them that they are not Catholic and what they are taught at school regarding religion is not necessarily what your family believes ? I don’t think I would ever send my children to a different religion’s school, but if I did, I would let them know that our religion is different,and while they need to answer test questions according to what’s taught in school,they needn’t believe it if it conflicted with our beliefs.

[Guinastasia]

Then why, if the church simply has to bless the union, does the RCC not allow outdoor ceremonies-that it must be inside the church?

[Bricker]

I said:

A Church-sanctioned wedding normally takes place in the parish of either party, or, in the case of a mixed marriage, in the parish of the Catholic party. Dispensations from these requirements are common, as is a priest presiding along with a minister or rabbi.

In short: a marriage conducted by a justice of the peace, in Roman Catholic tradition, is insufficient to qualify as a sacramental marriage, and since failing to obey the laws of the Church concerning marriage is a sin, one could be said to be living in sin.

Doreen said:

Actually, it’s a little more liberal than this. In the case of an interfaith wedding,under certain circumstances the bishop can permit a Catholic to marry in a ceremony of a different faith or even in a secular ceremony conducted by a public official.But I think that’s a little too detailed to expect it to be covered in a 15 year old’s religion class, especially since I suspect “in a church” is not a direct quote ( “in the Church” is more likely,in my opinion ) and I have a feeling the “going to hell” was an inference on someone’s part

Er… yes, I know. That’s why I said “Dispensations from these requirements are common.”

• Rick

[pkbites]

This particular school does not teach evolution as fact, but that it is a false theory. I checked this out long ago before sending my oldest pup. As far as the rest of the indoctrination, students are not required to attend mass, and are only required to take 1 spiritual class per year.
I was aware that many catholic (and other religious schools) teach evolution, but this one as a rule does not.

[Kyberneticist]

Pkbites, I hope none of your children are trying to get a degree in the bio sciences…

This school doesn’t cover evolutionary theory? What on earth is it accredited in?

[Monty]

*Originally posted by toadspittle *
**What type of religious school is it, pk? The denomination might help us determine whether we need to go to just the Bible or some other writings (i.e., Papal Bulls). **

The school teacher, for sure, is intolerant. The denomination, if it’s a Catholic school, isn’t. But the OP, given his comment about evolution fits right in with the teacher!

[SSgtBaloo]

The following is in no way to be construed as a serious answer.
[/quote]
[ul]The Pope (as paraphrased by the late Sam Kinneson): “NO! Next!”

Philosopher: “What is sin?”

Me: “If they’re married to each other, then no.”[/ul]

~~Baloo