Are "Deal or No Deal" shows scripted?

I don’t have my figures with me at the moment, but the mean of all the values is a shade over $131,000; and the median, IIRC, is around $7,500. Given that Duh Bankuh (in reality an automatic calculation, but you knew that) invariably lowballs until very late, never mind 1M, getting to even .1M is a challenge.

Bluster. Hype. Smack talk. Contestant doesn’t know. Howie Mandell doesn’t know. It’s luck and chance. At best it’s superstition or blind hope. You should know that.

See initial comment. And are you suggesting that smaller awards are tax-free or something?

Of course there’s lots of speechifying; that’s the fun part! And, as was pointed out before, nobody ever takes the initial bum offers (which are almost always quick decisions). The first one is at best 25% of fair value.

  1. Criticizing based on 20/20 retrospect is automatic “biggest horse’s rear end on the planet” status, and I guarantee you that anyone moronic enough to do this will catch a thousand times as much hell as the unlucky contestant, 2. the contestant brought them on for support; accepting the invitation and then getting all upset just because the contestant was UNLUCKY is really not advisable, and 3. the next hypothetical picks aren’t always good ones. I remember at least two occasions where the next case the contestant Woulda Picked was the highest value remaining. In other words, taking the deal is always the wrong choice, except when it isn’t. BFD.

Scripted? Predictable would be a better word. The producers have a winning formula and, just like for American Idol, they’re damn well going to run it into the ground. Barring a radical redesign of the game’s mechanics or completely new case values, we’re unlikely to ever see any surprises.

(Just once…JUST FREAKING ONCE…when Howie asks “Now, would you like to do the customary after-the-fact too-damn-late-to-change-anything 20/20 retrospect tripe where you die an inch at a time if your decision turned out to be wrong and gain jumping jack squat if you were right, oh yeah, and if your case has a big value we’ll conveinently forget that you have the option of switching?” I want someone to say, plainly and simply, “No.” Or if that’s just a bit too blunt, “No thanks.”*

Shayna - Seriously? I recall a previous thread (might be here, I don’t remember) where someone started by opening cases 1-6 in order, and the initial offer was $123,456. If I’m in that situation…a figure much better than anything I’m likely to achieve honestly, and without breaking a sweat…I’d take it in a heartbeat. (Then politely refuse to open My Case to see if I Made A Good Deal. And if Howie or the audience absolutely insisted on it, I would rip the numbers off all the cases, throw them into messy pile, then tell Howie, “Fine. Open my case.” :slight_smile: )

Cyberhwk - Believe me, that’s far from the worst of it. One contesant who was doing really good for a long time got just a wee bit too aggressive…and left with $5. The next-to-last contestant on the million dollar challenge…y’know, the next seven highest values after the $1M replaced with $1M…won $100. “Greed” aside, with a board as bottom-heavy as that, the odds are far more in favor of a tiny payoff than a huge one.

BobLibDem - But see, that’s the crux of the problem; the only way to win the million is to keep it alive to the end (I’d like to point out that it makes absolutely no difference whether or not the million is in His or Her Case, since the contestant has the option of switching at the end; all that matters is not opening it.), and that means sweating out a series of increasingly tough deal refusals. Furthermore, forget the $.01. What about the $1, or $100, or $500? It still amounts to risking a shade under half a million for the chance at a shade under half a million. Even if it’s the $200,000 (and that’s a phenomenal game by any standard), that amounts to a $400,000 gamble, a far greater risk than most contestants…on the hot seat, in real time, the one and only chance, no takebacks…would go for.

That was the whole point of the Million Dollar Challenge, so that someone could have two million cases at the end and make it academic. Unfortunately, because the extra millions replaced the highest values, once there was only one million left, we’re back to the no-way-in-hell gamble. (And even nine millions is far less than half of the total cases, so the chances of two millions going the distance was never that good.)

  • Alternatively, “I have a short answer and a long answer. The short answer is ‘no’. The long answer is ‘No, and stop wasting my time, dammit’.”**

** Ooh, I got another one. “‘That’ and ‘screw’, not necessarily in that order.”***

*** Or how about this: “Okay, imagine that the two is the letter of the alphabet most commonly mistake for a 2. Then imagine that the zero is the letter of the alphabet that looks like a zero. Then rotate the first letter 90 degrees…that’s one-quarter turn…in either direction. Hey, you figured there was a reason I chose that case?” :slight_smile:

I have seen an episode where the contestant said “no” and Howie’s reply was something along the lines of “Too bad, you have to.”

And why are all these game show threads ending up in The Game Room? Aren’t they about TV shows?

This would seem to suggest that even though the banker’s offer is largely calculated automatically, there is still a human somewhere to tweak it. This person could also decide when to offer the contestant a special gift.

Justin Bailey - The hell?? Oh, man. I don’t believe for a second that it’s actually required by the rules. I would challenge him point-blank on that.

Or else I’d turn it into a game. “Mmm…ahh…[hem and haw for about a minute]…okay. I…would…have…mmm…picked… mmmmmmmmmmmmm…dang, I dunno. They’re all such nice numbers…” :smiley:

Hypnagogic Jerk - Well, yes, there’s a human element; I didn’t mean to say that it was just a calculation. But it’s not some silhouette looking at a laptop computer and rubbing his forehead, and nobody is trying to make the contestant win as little as possible or whatever junk. I don’t understand how anyone can believe that an overwhelmingly neutral party like The Banker can want anything other than an entertaining show. I mean, after all the time it’s been on, that lesson has to have sunk in…right?

I’m sure it’s not in the rules, but it is probably in the contract for appearing on the show. If you want your winnings you have to play the game how the producers want it and they think the after-the-fact picking makes a better show.

Sure the silhouette is cheesy, it’s not a stretch to see the influence of “The Banker” in every offer made. Like the aforementioned $123,456 offer or the time he offered the girl that loved green and Hummers a green Hummer. Joke all you want about the pointlessness of “The Banker”, but there really is someone tweaking every offer to make the show more entertaining.

As for “wanting the contestant to lose”, it’s a game show and I always assumed that was the default position for contestants. They have to know the show would rather not pay out, as they then get to use that money on the next contestant.

Look at the Million Dollar Mission, relatively low payouts, but very entertaining episodes. It’s completely win-win for the producers.

I’ve put way too much thought into this.

“Probably?” I’d make damn sure whether or not it was required. And if it was, I’d damn well at least cover my butt by letting the audience know what really matters.

Howie Mandell: Okay, Darrell, you made the deal for $180,000. Now, in the interest of potentially making you wish you were never born, and so the audience can act all smug and righteous and I-told-you-so and pretend that they would’ve done any better, we’re going to see the last case you would have picked. And then open your case to see if it, in fact, has the $500,000 and we get to laugh in your face even more.
Me: Do I get more money if I was right?
HM: For the third time, NO.
Me: Oh. Oh well. All right, I’ll get to my pick in a minute, but first… [lengthy lecture about probability, expected value, averages, risk vs. reward, etc.]
HM: Well, that was…interesting. Ready to pick now?
Me: Almost. I should also remind everyone that… [lecture about the thrill of the contest, once-in-a-lifetime chances, sweating bullets with every gamble, being on the hot seat, etc.]
HM: You done?
Me: One more thing. This case? [point to, cough, ahem, “my” case] Please don’t think of this as “my” case. Because I wouldn’t have been able to take it unless I made to the very end. Just this and one case up there remaining. Which I didn’t do. As you can see, there are two cases still up there. So this case is not, and in fact never was, my case. Furthermore, had I made it to the very end, I would have had the option of SWITCHING with the one remaining case up on the stage. So even then it would’ve been my case ONLY if I decided not to switch. And every contestant who goes the distance gets this choice, right, Howie?
HM: Right. Now if…
Me: Exactly. Glad you remembered that; you seemed to have had some trouble with that in the past. So, all “my” case symbolizes is a case that, for whichever reason, I don’t want opened. Which is really nothing special, since I can do it with any case simply by not choosing it! And in fact, this is what I’d have to do with one of those cases up there to get to the endpoint in the first place!
HM: Darrell…
Me: Hold your horses, all right? Okay, so even if you consider this to be “my case”, in that I can potentially take what’s in it, there is one other case that has that same potential. So even in that context, this isn’t simply “my case”. It’s more “one of my cases”, or “one half of my case”. In other words, one half of my total possible cases, not just the one. So even if this were the case with the $500,000, that doesn’t mean that I lost $320,000, for that matter, because that $500,000 needs to be averaged with the remaining case that could have been my case. Or the average of the three, since I didn’t go the distance. Whichever. But definitely not a loss of $320,000.
HM: If you’re about done…
Me: I am. Okay, the last case I would’ve picked is…8.
[Case #8 Opener opens case #8. It shows $500,000. Audience erupts.]
Me: Oh. [brief pause] All right! :slight_smile:

It almost frightens me how many shows are on these days that are a helluva lot more fun to write about than to watch.

In addition to the fact that the offer made is well below the EV in the early game, there’s another factor that makes it worth while to play for a little while.

The dollar amounts are not normally distributed; they are heavily weighted toward small values. Of the 26 suitcases, only 7 have a “life changing” amount (defined as $100K or more). Fully 14 have an essentially worthless value (who cares if you walk away with $1000 or less). So, a random selection of cases to remove is very likely to increase your EV. This is true until there are as many “high value” as “low value” cases left, which is often true through most of the game. Although people may reasonably stop playing well below parity, especially if they have only one “high value” case left in play and don’t want to risk losing it.

Thank you, iamthewalrus. Excellent point, one frequently overlooked.

Okay, I’m home and have my figures now. The values are .01, 1, 5, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 750, 1,000, 5,000, 10,000, 25,000, 50,000, 75,000, 100,000, 200,000, 300,000, 400,000, 500,000, 750,000, and 1,000,000. That works out to a mean of 131,477.54 and an incredibly paltry median of 875. Of course, that makes it easier to knock out many low values, but it also increases the danger of eliminating all the high ones. Easy to see why it’s really tough to quit early and even tougher to keep going late.

The million dollar mission variation only improves things somewhat. Since the millions replace the high values, this usually extends the process by a round or two at best.

FWIW, on last night’s show, the contestant had $1 million + 3 smallish amounts left. She took an offer for $219k. She played “correctly” - she had just opened the other large amount ($300k?), so was down to 1 million & garbage. When they did the whole “what would have happened next” scenario, the offers went to $302k, $541k, and it turned out she had the $1 million next to her all along.

DKW, you know, through the magic of editing, that none of your speechifying would make it on the air unless the producers found it entertaining?

You should know by now if you’ve seen the show enough times that they have never had a contestant that has one clue about probability, expected value, averages, risk vs. reward, etc. and nor do they want one.
Your type (my type also) would never get past the screening process.
“Shoo, go away, go try out for Jeopardy or something! This is no place for common sense, logic, or reasoning.”

That’s just not true. “I’ll keep playing as long as there are 2 amounts > $100k left, in the hope that I’ll get down to just those 2, but I’ll quit as soon as I open one of them” is a pretty sound strategy, especially if one of them is the million, and I’ve seen plenty of players (like last night) play exactly that strategy. Claiming to “know” you’ve got the million in the case you picked is just for the cameras.

Okay. Let me ammend “has no clue about” to “has a very loose grasp of” when it comes to probability and logic.
For plenty of the contestants I’ve seen no light comes on until there are less than 4 cases on the board.

Yeah, I know, I know, just having a little fun (pretty much the only fun I have with game shows these days). Come to think of it, I don’t think those numbers would come off that easily, either. Maybe just dump them down a garbage chute or something.

muldoonthief - Yes, yes, but you see, the last step, i.e. turning down over half a million dollars and then making the right decision whether or not to switch, would be next to impossible. Even a pairing of $500,000 would take nerves of steel, and I can’t even imagine the insane recklessness it would take to make the jump with $200,000 or $100,000. Many contestants have “had the million”, but not one was willing to make the Lady Or Tiger choice to claim it. And that should come as no surprise at all.

Also, and this is very important, sometimes the “correct” choice is the correct choice. I’ve witnessed several contestants burned by going one step too far, and I’ve seen no fewer than two take the deal when the very next case they would’ve picked would’ve sent them crashing down. It’s like The Gambler said: Every hand’s a winner, and every hand’s a loser, and the best that you can hope for is that you still have $200,000 after “throwing away” three hundred grand.