More specifically, are dogs naturally agressive toward cats, or is it just a territorial predatory animal not wanting other predatory animals in its territory thing?
I’ve known many domestic dogs, even owned a couple, that were very friendly toward cats, even though they hadn’t been raised around felines. And, while most cats that haven’t been raised around dogs will head for the nearest tree if one approaches, I’ve known a couple of dog-friendly cats in my time, as well. I have fond memories of a neighborhood cat that used to come over to play with my Chihuahua, Roxie, when we had her on a leash in the yard on a nice day. Roxie was, of course, terrified of this cat and would cower and snivel at the cat’s friendly and playful gestures.
Also, I think it would be a fairly safe assumption that a dog that is aggressive towards cats would probably also be aggressive toward strange dogs as well. A pack of wolves will merrily run off a strange wolf, and a tiger will rumble with another tiger that invades its territory, unless it is of the oppsite sex and in a mood for mating.
So, is there really a natural enmity between canines and felines, aside from the natural desire of an animal to not want another animal in its territory that might compete for food? It seems to me that a well-fed domestic dog that is generally not hostile toward strange animals is usually quite content to have a cat around as long as said cat is not robbing the food dish when the dog is hungry.
I’m not certain I understand the question. I really can’t see any difference between a species that is ‘naturally agressive toward cats’ and a species that has evolved to become ‘a territorial predatory animal not wanting other predatory animals in its territory’ that acheives that territorial isolation by killing every cat they see. Perhaps you could explain what the practical difference would be between those scenarios. And if you can’t do that peraps you could explin what the psychological difference might be. Do you think that a member of territorial predatory animal not wanting other predatory animals in its territory might not be <I>feeling</I> aggressive when it rips a cat to pieces? Remember that cats aren’t easy prey for a dog, they are quite capable o fighting back. Do you really think that a species that kills cats for territorial reasons could afford to do so in a non-aggressive manner?
Wolves are predators. Although they can and will hunt prey larger than themselves they get most of their food form small prey. They are ‘programmed’ to chase and kill and eat anything small and furry. And guess what? Cats are small and furry. This is in fact one of the main reasons domestic dogs attack cats. Cats have a very strong flight instinct when surprised. Dogs have a strong instinct to chase and kill anything small and furry that flees. That is bad news for the cat. It’s not necessarily that dogs hate cats, it’s that cats act like prey. As a result of this many moggies have either evolved or learned a better response to dogs. If there is isn’t a tree or fence handy they face the animals down. Because they are only responding to instinct most dogs of any size can be faced down by a determined cat. Once they realise the cat won’t run and has claws the dog usually gives up. Unfortunately some dogs are cat killers, but usually the cat is far safer facing the dog than it is running and triggering the chase instinct.
Hopefully this goes some way to answering the question. Cats and dogs aren’t natural enemies. They are predator and prey. And yes, wolves and other wild dogs will happily kill and eat cats as food.
However lest anyone think your question is in any way odd, the situation you describe is exactly what happens in the relationship between dogs/wolves and foxes. Dogs and wolves will go out of their way to kill foxes, to the point of tracking them for hours. They do not usually eat foxes however. They simply kill them. I guess that removes competition. The same situation is observed with hyaenas and lions, although their both species will kill the other when they have the upper hand, without ever eating them.
That’s pretty much what I was thinking of, actually.
Now, think in terms of animals of approximately equal size, say one of the smaller wolf species vs. a largish mountain lion. Don’t think either one is going to think of the other as a snack. Don’t think either one is going to want the other in its hunting territory. Fur will fly on both sides. The mountain lion, having both claws and teeth in its arsenal, will probably win, if the wolf doesn’t have a lot of friends with it.
Although in terms of domestic carnivores, especially from the dog’s point of view, while a wolf may want to fight with a mountain lion that is a threat to its food supply, a smaller dog, say a cocker spaniel or a Yorkie, just doesn’t seem that inclined to want to hassle a cat. From what I’ve seen, smaller dogs, and even many larger ones, regard a cat the same way they might another dog of about the same size-(assuming again that the dog wasn’t generally hostile to other animals)- as a potential playmate.
It seems to me that once you take away the rivalry over food/hunting territories, with some exception, our canine and feline friends seem to get on rather well.
Thea Logica it isn’t in any way obligatory for two competing species to fight, even over territory. Many species of predators share overlapping territories. In North America alone there are half a dozen cat species, three bears, several canids, otters, skunks, raccoons etc etc. They all overlap to some degree and by and large they completely ignore each other. They each have their own ecological niche and competition, although it exists, is so slight that it presumably doesn’t warrant aggression. The ‘ars’ between dogs and foxes and lions and hyaenas are unusual enough to demand special attention. They are the exception rather than the rule.
Wolves and coyotes, and even foxes, ‘hassle’ cats for one reason: food. It isn’t competition or aggression, it’ just that a cat is a bundle of calories wrapped in fur.
Domestic dogs can be taught to overcome the natural instinct to chase cats simply be raising them with cats. They will then see the cats as playmates or more likely simply as scenery. Of course the same can be acahived with chickens, and few dogs raised with chickens will kill them, although of course game birds are very high a wolf’s menu. But don’t think that it’s ‘natural’. Small dogs, particularly terriers, are the worst cat botherers around. Foxies and Aerdailes just love to case cats. Of course they usually lack the size to kill a at, but the fur certainly flies.
Basically it comes down to the fact that dogs can be easily trained. We’ve selected them over millenia for that precise trait. Dogs raised with other animal will as readily ignore or even bind with cats as the will sheep, chickens, pigs, cattle, guinea pigs and a whole range of other species that a wolf would just call lunch. Dogs aren’t natural ‘enemies’ of any of those species, it’s just that in a natural environment they will happily chow down on them all, and without training they will have some instinctive drive to try it again.
I can’t help feeling I’m missing the point here somewhere.
Yeah, no doubt about that Mangeorge. A major concern over coyotes in urban areas is because they will readily eat and kill cats. Cats that have learned to face down dogs are surprised when a coyote simply shakes their internal organs to pieces. Those animals are in it for food, not sport and don’t care if the prey runs. Foxes will also kill and eat cats.
Species that are predators often overlap each others territories and each keeps its own buisness. Confortation between them occurs mostly because one wants to steal the others prey, e.g. hyenas and lions. You would be surprised in fact that sometimes, it is the lions who steals from the hyenas, not just what “Lion King” tells you.
Another reason of confrontation is maternal instinct. That is went things can go bad. Mama Bear doesn’t fukc around!
<font color= red> Confortation between them occurs mostly because one wants to steal the others prey, e.g. hyenas and lions.</font>
Lions and hyaenas are in fact a notable exception. There are well documented ‘wars’ between the species. Hyaenas will kill any isolated lionesses that they find. Male lions will kill any hyaenas they can catch. From time to time male lions will set off on deliberate hyaena culls, killing several in a week and causing the rest to scatter. Although the species certainly steal on another’s kills there is mor egoing on than that.
my dogs and cats sleep together, they also clean each other, it is quite unnerving. so maybe in the wild the dogs would try to kill the cats, but when there is mutual warmth in the winter to be had, and a good licking to boot, i guess they cat get along just fine.
But coyotes will also kill and eat domestic dogs. AFAIK, there is no more affinity for them to attack cats than to attack dogs (of the same size as cats).
The classic “dog chases cats” of the OP is more size related than species related. Cats also are programmed to chase “small furry things” and if you had a very small dog, you’d find that your cat would stalk and “hunt” it.
And since it’s been well documented (as already noted in earlier posts) that dogs and cats reared together do get along in later life, I think that pretty much answers the question of whether are natural (which I take to mean genetic) enemies.
Nor did I ever suggest otherwise. I was answering a very specific question about whether canids will in fact eat cats.
Only if you accept that no species are natural enemies. That is probbaly true, but it seems so obvious that I don’t think it’s what the Op was looking for. Dogs reared alongside rabbits and goats will also get along later in life, but it’s hard to imagine two species that are more gnticaly likely to be on a canid’s diet.