I am not terribly familiar with animals, having never had a pet smarter than a goldfish, but it occurs to me that domestic cats seem to have a “wild” temperament. A cat that doesn’t receive human socialization will be absolutely wild, and wild cats can be quite socialized (I’ve seen lots of videos of keepers playing with tigers, for example, in ways that they don’t play with rhinos and zebras and other large animals). The big cats are, of course, much bigger and stronger than a human, so they remain dangerous even when tame, but this seems to me (and I am asking) to be purely a function of size and strength and claws.
Dogs, on the other hand, seem to have been socialized to like people. Wolves can be quite tame, but I think that they are never as friendly as a real Canis familiaris. Housecats, on the other hand, will learn to like petting and being fed, but don’t seem to need people on the emotional level that dogs do.
So, are domestic cats really a “domesticated” animal, or just an animal that is small and socializable?
Would a smallish “wild” cat like a cervil be any less friendly than a housecat, given the same amount of human contact?
This is really a debate or at least a poll because the answer is bound to stir up emotions and ambiguous evidence. Cats are domesticated in the sense that they can live among people easily, serve well as pets, and the word domesticate probably had them in mind when it took on meaning.
Cats are not pack animals however and that is where they fall short of dogs in the domestication hierarchy. Dogs are meant to bond with people and they tend to see us as their natural leaders to love and serve. Cats don’t have that same instinct.
If you rule out cats as domesticated pets then you basically only have dogs left and that isn’t a very descriptive term when it includes only one specific relationship.
To answer your other question, people raise many types of wild cats as pets including every size. It can be a dangerous pastime but most do Ok for a while. (You would be amazed at the number of people that have pet lions and tigers in the U.S. because they are perfectly legal in many states and you can buy then for much less than you might think from internet breeders and disillusioned owners.) People also raise raccoons, squirrels and just about every other type of animal as pets.
However, most of them can be unpredictable or unstable and almost all of them are not as convenient as a house-cat. My own semi-feral cat that came with our house and has never seen the indoors can be approached and sometimes petted. That wouldn’t happen with other cats if they had never been around people much so there is something their in their nature that makes them amicable to humans.
There are degrees of domestication, but house cats have been raised among humans for at least 6,000 years. I think that would count as “full domestication”.
BTW, it’s Canis lupus familiaris, not Canis familiaris. Biologists don’t recognize domestic dogs as a species distinct from wolves (Canis lupus). Similarly, cats are Felis silvestris catus, a subspecies of the wild cat, Felis silvestris.
The reason dogs seem more domseticated is probably because they are pack animals, and we become their pack. Domestic cats that are left on their own have been seen to exhibit some social behaviors (although not to the extent that dogs do). The domestic cat’s wild cousins are definitely solitary animals.
I would have to say that domesticated cats can indeed be very domestic. That is, be very emotionally attached to their owners.
While its true cats are not pack animals and don’t see their owners as the alpha male the way dogs do, cats do see people as part of their group if you will. And some cats do maintain a sort of parent/kitten relationship with you their whole lives.
I’ve had a cat most of my life and have had two purebred Bengals for many years now. And even though Bengals have a very wild streak for a domestic (they were originally crossbred with the Asian Leopard Cat) my two are also extremely bonded to me and become very antsy and upset when I leave them with friends for any length of time (vacation etc.) When I return they respond similarly as dogs in that they are very happy to see me. Its just that, unlike dogs, rather than expressing this by being overly submissive syncophants they express it by excessive vocalizing (i.e. constant meowing).
Its this seeing humans more as equals not masters thing that many people interpret as a lack of any real need or attachment on a cat’s part. But that need is almost always there with a house cat.
We have certainly selectively bred the domestic cat to be much more varied than its wild counterpart, and I believe that most of the more “rarified” cat breeds would be far less likely to fend for themselves or turn feral than your average moggie. In that sense, there’s a similarity to domestic dogs - dogs can turn feral under the right circumstances, as a survival mode, but usually it’s the ones that have fewer variation from the wild; e.g., mixed breeds/mutts and others that are closer in type to the wolf.
Think of it - have you ever seen a feral cat that looked in any way like a purebred? A Persian, a Siamese, a Rex? All of them I’ve seen are obviously mixed.
But - this is just the opinion of a layperson who has done a lot of reading on the subject. And I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (not).
Some cats are a bit “wild” always, like my cat Ichabod who was abused as a young cat and has definite issues. Ich is jumpy, loves to run outside, loves to stalk and catch things, loves to yowl at the neighbor dog, will attack a dog if given the opportunity, will bite strangers, etc.
But some other cats are simply not wild at all. Two of our cats can be picked up and carried around endlessly, purring and making air biscuits. They want to be touched and petted and snuggled with at all times. They aren’t afraid of anything, aren’t jumpy or twitchy, don’t really play or stalk, don’t ever show any interest in outside. They will tell you when their dish is empty, though. Albert and Irving have zero dignity, zero independence, zero survival skills.
I believe that there are fairly obvious difference between domesticated cats and their wild cousins although I’m not really qualified to say. But most technical definitions of true domestication that I’ve read include a biological component that says that mankind has changed the animal somewhat through selective breeding from its ancestors.
You’ve never met my cat. He learned how to jump and switch off the lightswitch in the bathroom so that I’d come out of the shower and pay attention to him. Once I locked myself out of the house and he (with plenty of food) sat on the other side of the door meowing for four hours while I sat on the doorstep. The silly thing won’t sleep unless he’s under the covers with someone’s arms wrapped around him like a teddy bear.
Thanks for the OP. I’ve been considering this myself lately. Poppy came home with me Thursday before last (5/23?) and has been residing in our bathroom until she’s secure enough to venture into the rest of the house. She’s a feral (ex) that was found quite young and placed in a foster home. That foster home involved, I think, her living in a very small cage with a bit of interaction from time to time.
Someone in a previous thread thought by looking at her pics that she was a Bengal. I just read the Wiki entry and she does kind of look like them. But the photos shown also just look like a Tabby to me. I don’t know the difference. She has bright pink pads with black um, back toes.
Now, when anyone enters her space in the bathroom they’re greeted with a mrowr, she’s quite vocal. She also starts purring the moment we’ve sat on the throne and purrs without any physical contact. Pet her and she goes into overdrive. She is really good at playing ball, I think she will be playing “fetch” soon, I see her pick up the ball in her mouth often. She just hasn’t brought it TO anyone yet. I’ve recently opened the door so she can explore, but she’s still quite hesitant. The Bengal association would make sense to me.
She WILL be a family member as my boys already LURVE her, gosh, to the point that I’m amazed she’s tolerating all that “love”.
Are humans domesticated. I posit that the range in people is mirrored in animals. I have shared the house with cats that stayed weird and wild.Also have had cats that see your lap as the only place to be. I have recsued cats from the wilds and found feral cats to be fun. Plus they clean out the vermin like it is a sport
From what I’ve seen, big cats can be as tame as housecats. The problem is with their size. My cats are thoroughly domesticated, but occasionally my foot will move in a manner that triggers their predatory instinct (as I write this, one of them is batting and biting at the buttons on the front of my shirt), or they’ll get irritated with petting and give me a light nip or swipe; due to their small size, the only damage I receive is a small scratch, at worst. With a tiger or leopard, the same thing can happen (see what happened with Roy Horn), but due to their size, rather than a scratch one winds up strewn about in pieces.
And when there’s enough food, domestic cats do form colonies and dominance hierarchies. Ask anyone with more than three cats in the house.
Cats are fully domesticated animals, because they can live fully indoors. Only few animals are kept fully indoors: dogs, cats, fish, hamster, etc. Only cats and dogs are fully domesticated enough to roam around human households. No other animals other than cats or dogs are allowed freedom inside human households. Birds must be kept in cages. Fish must be kept in fish tank/aquarium. Only cats and dogs can be touched and petted easily, because they roam around human households.
I raised a young Bob Cat up until about 4 months and he was very tame and lovable. My parents would not let me keep him so I gave him to a couple who wanted him. He was basicaly a big fat house cat but he did a lot more damage, never aggressive with the owner but could not be trusted around kids or strangers. You could tell he was not fully domestic.
I have to disagree with you, jlee9372. I know people who keep rabbits and ferrets (although generally not both) and both of those are usually free-roaming in the house (usually an animal-proofed house) even though they HAVE a cage or pen that they return to for sleeping (then again, my dog slept in her crate for three years before we started letting her stay free at night).
beside him.