I saw this story about the Free Pride Glasgow banning drag queens from their parade. Are drag queens considered offensive to transgender people?
Not to the ones I know. Not for being drag queens, anyway. They are offended by some idiots who just happen to be drag queens though.
I think it would depend on the transgender person(s), the drag queen(s), how drag is presented, and a bunch of other issues. I find some drag offensive and I’m cisgender and largely numb to the issues involved so yeah, some of it is offensive I’m sure, but some of it is more of a theatrical performance or possibly less offensive.
Awaiting the input of some of our transgender members…
There’s a tiny, but very loud, group of activists that seem to look for things to be offended by. Toronto Pride went through this shit last year or the year before.
See also the activists protesting against the police presence in Pride Parades, activists against the Star of David, and activists who ‘shut down’ Pride Parades for not enough minority representation.
Everything is offensive to somebody.
As a transgendered person who often goes out with other ladies, drag brunches and similar events are some of our favorite events. So, no.
I find this ban absurd. Drag Queens (and Kings) are an integral part of the LGBTQ community, much cherished and respected by many of us, and have as much right to be there as anyone else.
Transgender. I hardly speak for everyone, but I’m not offended.
I would think if drag queens are offensive to anyone it would be women in general. After all, that’s who they’re “appropriating”.
This is a complicated issue.
Drag has a thorny history. For instance, the modern burlesque-derived form of drag we see is derived, legitimately, from minstrel shows. White men dressing up as black women to mock black femininity. However, that doesn’t mean it in its current form is bad, but it does mean we have to own up to the history and that it began as a form of mockery. It can be a means of self expression, and many transpeople even use drag as an outlet to explore their identity (or even crossplay as their birth gender to experience things they miss), but being aware of its history and acknowledging it helps prevent it from falling into nasty habits.
Many drag communities are run by white cis gay men, and often trend from “exaggeration of gender as a means of self expression” into “straight up misogyny” and they’re often very exclusionary of the trans community as well. Frequently they minimize transwomen as being the same as drag queens, or try and co-opt the transgender label for themselves when they’re simply participating in a form of entertainment, not identifying in any way (or even going around town wearing gender non-conforming clothing).
Ru Paul is known for being a piece of shit about this, while minimizing trans people and using a lot of transphobic language. (NOTE: this does not condemn everyone on his show, just Ru Paul himself). In fact, me and most transpeople I talk to got a good giggle when Ru Paul tried to “support trans people better” and then tweeted a picture of the… trains flag, not the trans flag, because they just misgoogled it and didn’t know what it looked like.
There’s also the natural issue that the average person sometimes conflates them, but that’s an educational issue.
There are also many wonderful drag communities that really seek out people of color, transpeople, and try to promote general queer awareness. They’re fierce defenders and safe spaces of expression for people who wish to explore their gender or sexuality, and often do a lot of drag performances for charity.
So no, drag is not inherently offensive to transpeople, but an individual drag community may, and not uncommonly do, exhibit behaviors that are very transphobic. And depending on a transperson’s local community, they may see this and interpret this as drag being tainted as a genre altogether. (And of course some have philosophical objections to it in general, but I don’t agree with that). In general, I find transpeople are pretty friendly to drag provided with the right drag community.
*Well, LGBT, if not really transgender.
Trying to post on my phone. Too late to edit.
Also, I remember reading years ago (so you know it just be true) about some place (a uni I think) banning cross dressing for similar reasons. I remember a transwoman criticising the decision, saying that before she was out cross dressing “as a joke” was a way for her to feel comfortable without being forced to come out to all her friends. so hooray, we’ve robbed more people of that to avoid offending people. (Edit: beaten to this point. And said way better by previous poster).
I always so the anti drag crowd as being more TERF than actual transgender.
Does any of this make sense? I’m trying to type while standing in peak hour on a train.
For the most part, except I don’t know what you mean by “TERF”. Or I could just be caffeine deficient this time of day.
Maybe for the US, but I’m reasonably sure that in many if not most European countries, they’re linked to traditional cross-dressing roles which didn’t include blackface. From panto to opera, ugly stepsisters get played by men and pretty young men are sung by mezzos. And as of last check, Glasgow was on this side of the pond.
Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist.
It is becoming progressively less and less possible to keep all this stuff straight.
Regards,
Shodan, PITA, BYOB, LS/MFT
Yes, drag has a long mainstream tradition in the UK - see pantomimes, which always have a Dame (comic drag queen) and Principal Boy (woman dressed as such). Not associated with blackface.
I dunno, I consider myself open-minded and an ally, and I still struggle with the caricature of feminine stereotypes that are embraced by drag queens and many transgender women. It puts me in uncomfortable radfem territory, but that’s the whole issue here, I think. No one is allowed to explore grey areas and nuance. Everything rockets instantly to 11.
Summary: people and feelings are complicated.
Frankly, I’m a bit disturbed by the caricatures of feminine roles I see some cisgender women live in daily, but to each their own. I’m pretty damn butch and tomboy and figure that if I want the space to be that I should be tolerant of the extreme “girly-girl” types. That IS some peoples’ identity.
Totally agree, which is why I have a real problem with the trans community (or their allies, don’t want to blame this ban on them) with failing to show perspective and empathy. If there’s one thing we know about the LGBTQ community it’s that we’re a broad church and need to accept each other for how we like to interact with the world. It’s kinda the whole freakin point of pride.
Just a note, for some reason this story popped up all over the web today, but if you follow the links within, you’ll see the original story is from 2015 and they have since repealed the ban:
https://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/07/22/22585311/free-pride-glasgow-we-made-a-mistake-and-we-apologise
Well shit, I didn’t see the date. Good information from the posters in this thread though, so thanks!
The story you linked to is dated this week, but it’s just copying information from a 3 year old story. Looking through that website’s stories, they’re definitely pushing an agenda.