Are Germans, Swedes, and the Dutch noticeably different from each other looks-wise?

ie - In an assembled group of just these three nationalities, could you have reasonable success in picking and sorting them out the crowd by natonality without hearing them speak?

Just curious.

I’m German and live in the Netherlands, and I would definitely have trouble distinguishing the two nationalities just by looks. At least, if we are talking about pure-blooded Germans and Dutch. Here in the Netherlands, there is a lot of mixing with Indonesian and African (much more genetic mixing than in Germany), so I would place anyone with a genetic mix including Asian or African into the Dutch group, and would probably be correct.

As to the Swedes, I have no idea, although I think the horned hats might give them away. :wink:

I don’t live there, but I think Mycroft must be right. The border between Germany and Holland is, from a linguistic and ethnic standpoint, fairly arbitrary. The geography and local dialects are very similar on either side of the line, even if the national standard languages are different.

Germany’s a big place and there’s a lot of variety in appearances there.

Holland and Sweden are small, comparitively. I agree it’s difficult to seperate the Dutch from Germans, but to my eyes Swedes have always looked different.

Paler and more fair. Also you often see that inuit/asiatic featuring in Swedes that is common in all of Scandanavia, including the Russian parts.

I think you would be hard pressed to tell the nationality of any individual in a random sample of people from those three countries (or any selection of northern European countries) based on physical looks alone. Fashions and hair styles however, are a different matter…

OB

I remember reading, long ago in a book which I cannot now name, that the Germanic people are in a subgroup of Europeans called “alpine”, while the Scandinavians (not counting the Lapplander-type) are in a subgroup called “nordic”. The nordic group is supposedly taller than the alpine overall, and the book listed some other differences in appearance which I cannot list.

I’m ¼ Swede myself, and my aunt says I have a characteristic Swedish “squarehead.”

I’ve always had people mistake me for Irish (sorry, not a bit) for my red hair. All my dad’s family have red hair, which they got from their Swedish dad. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if the Irish/Scottish gene for red hair came from invading Vikings. That’s my theory.

Northern Germans who speak “Niedersachsen” dialects are probably closer to Dutchmen than they are to Bavarians from Munich. Likewise thanks to the “Hansa” of the Middle Ages, people in cities such as Stockholm, Copenhagen, Lübeck, Germany and Riga, Latvia probably have as much or more genes in common with each other than the folks from their own countries hinterlands.

Anyway I would say that North Germans, Dutch, and Swedes share too many common links to be separated easily. Now South Germans and Austrians may look distinct enough, as a group, to be set apart. Of course no region or country consists of people with only one or two types, but groups or crowds of people can be roughly identified this way.

I would also bet anyone who could distinguish between neighboring European nationalities with some success would be relying heavily on factors such as dress, hairstyle, and gestures or expressions than “race” per se. Of course, as people become more internationalized, this is probably harder to discern.

In technical anthropological terms, both Germans and Scandinavians belong to the “squarehead” group, while the Dutch are better characterized as “cheeseheads.” :slight_smile:

  • Colibri, who is part squarehead himself.

OK, assuming using innate physical characteristics isn’t going to be that effective as a filter, except maybe at the far end of the morphological bell curve for the room (ie with a Swede vs a Bavarian say), I look at a mingling roomfull of Swedes, Germans and Danes at meeting break that features an international buffet, and have to sort them out without relying on hearing them speak. What are the giveaways? Clothing, hairstyle, teeth, womens makeup, mens suits, how they hold themselves, their expressions, how they drink? What they drink? Will some huddle while other mingle?

:confused:
Let’s start by taking away a bunch of misconceptions: While Germany has the largest population of Europe (~83 mill.) it’s nowhere the largest in size, at ~138.000 sq.miles, it’s quite a bit smaller than Sweden’s 174.000 sq. miles. Holland is indeed tiny at 16.000 sq.miles.

From a purely genetical viewpoint, there’s little or no differance between the three nationalities. Fashion, hair style and attitudes give away nationality, but not pure physical appearence.

Lastly, I suppose you mean the Lapps (more properly The Saami) who indeed come from a totally different genetic stock, somewhat similar to the inuit, mostly because they’re almost always black haired. They’re nowhere as stocky as inuit and don’t have much in common with the ‘Asian’ eyes. They’re also a minority, numbering only about 20.000, so their contribution to the Swedish genepool is small, almost nonexistent.

Their are more dark people in Sweden than the stereotype makes common. Original Swedes (Vikings, if you wish) where reddish blondes, looking more like you imagine the stereotypical Scot. The blond/fair comes from Slavic influence (Vikings brought a lot of slaves from the area which is now Russia) and the darker parts came from Belgium/France during the 1600’s.

I saw the smilie, but this is still one of my pet peeves: Vikings did not have horns on their helmets

Close, but no cigarr. The Hansa cities did not include Stockholm or Copenhagen. And while the merchants of the Hansa travelled extensively, they didn’t mix well with the locals. Rememeber, these where the upperclass, with wealth and position. I’m sure there was more than one stray child left behind but the Hansa was more of an economic, than a social force.

Basically, we’re all ‘Germanic’ stock. The Goth, as in Visigoths, come from Sweden, our languages have common roots and the Vikings where more of a ‘maffia’ doing business by force, than conquering warriors. Waterways where faster and many times safer a 1000 years ago in this region, so naturally, a lot of people mixed, but saying that the Hansa was that influential is not right. The organization lasted for maybe 300 years, but the real impact was fram late 1200’s to the middle of 1400’s, a brief period considering that we’ve been travelling around, trading and mixing the genepool for about 1500 years.

Sweden is part of the vodka belt, whereas Germany and Holland are part of the beer belt. Swedes tend to drink the same way as Russians, Scots and the Irish do - heavily until reaching unconciousness. For some reason, the Mullet survived well into the 90’s in Germany and is still seen every now and then. There also seems to be a preference for moustaches among Germans, something very rare in Sweden.
I dunno, maybe it’s something we’re raised to see, but I can always spot a German tourist in Sweden, without hearing them talk, but almost never a Dutch tourist.

I thought the preferred term was Clogboys :smiley:

What follows are my own personal opinions, which are not necessarily representative of Dutch opinions as a whole.

Purely physically speaking there is not much difference. However, in some cases you can tell a person is German because of a different ‘posture’, a manner of moving or standing which seems slightly ‘stiffer’ from common Dutch. Similarly you may sometimes see facial differences with Scandinavians. I think it has to do with keeping your face in a specific manner because you have to pronounce certain words in a certain way.

However, I cannot give exact figures about proportion of people. Living in Amsterdam may influence my perception because I may see more stereotypical tourists.

Depending on which direction you choose to look. Stereotyping is allowed here, ja? S

The Dutch will have the bigger hands, the Swedes the fairer skin and the lightest hair, and we Krauts der biggest Schwanzes. (How else were we gonna do that Lebensraum thing?) :smiley:

Dammit, I’m sorry! Of course this isn’t a scientific observation! It’s just me being a smartarsch. I couldn’t resist. Been away from here too long I guess. Somebody take me to the pit and chastise my sorry German ass! :wink:

(I’ll just love y’all anyway! ;);))

Q

I just got back from 12 days in Amsterdam, Trondheim and the boonies of Sweden. I could not tell a Swede from a Norwegian or the Dutch from either of them. Of course, I was more worried about them sterotyping me and my wife. I loved them all. :smiley:

hehehehe Quasimodem :slight_smile:

Not only have the Dutch the biggest hands, apparently we have the biggest feet as well.
astro, Look for persons with shoes, the size of a canoe. They’re Dutch. :smiley:

Oh, and kniz, [I submitted too soon and then my computer went on the blink] Don’t worry about us stereotyping you. We love you too.

I hope you had a great time. Come back soon! :slight_smile:

Not necessarily. From Genes, Peoples, and Languages by Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza:

So it’s unlcear what their “genetic stock” is, but today they are mostly European.

Also (and you’re not the only offender here), there is no such country as “Holland”. It’s The Netherlands. Holland is a geographic area inside of The Netherlands.

there is a certain blue eye colour that i’ve only seen in dutch people, or people with dutch relatives. it is a really clear, beautiful, blue. hard to describe in words, but when i see it, i know it and i haven’t been wrong yet (touch wood).

in one family, out of 5 kids only 1 had the blue. so i’m figuring in it may not occur too often.

there is a certain shade of blond as well that, to me, is very dutch. i’ve only seen it combined with the “dutch” blue eyes. i’ve not seen it in the scan. and german blonds.

in the midwest of the us you have a huge spectrum of blonds and blues. this “dutch” combo really sticks out to me. when i was in college i met a girl while watching tv in the common room. we introduced and laughed that we both were jensens. i looked at her and said you must have a dutch person in your family some where. she was very surprised and said, “yes, my grandmother on my mother’s side.” “How could you tell?” she had the “dutch” combo, it was obvious to me. most people didn’t look beyound the danish.

This is an old story, but an Asian fellow I once worked with was unable to recognize a fair-skinned, freckled, redheaded lass as Irish, and did not perceive her as being all that different from the Italian lady at the next desk. “You all look alike to us,” he said. OTOH, what was very clear to him was the difference between a Vietnamese, a Japanese, a Korean, and various parts of China.