Right, and there are NO places in WoW on a PvP server where you can’t be ganked… oh, wait, yes there are. So I guess, no, it’s not the ENTIRE point of the game, since ganking in areas beneath a certain level can’t be done, there are “sanctuaries” where you can’t gank, plenty of “neutral” towns where attempting to gank means the guards gang up on you, and so forth.
I fail to see what that has to do with absolutely anything.
Not really. It’s the video game version of hazing.
The point is that even on the most rabid WoW PvP server there are still PvP-free places, from low to high level. So clearly, the game developers decided that no, PvP is not the ENTIRE point of the game and there are points at which it is not allowed.
Not even everyone who plays PvP on a PvP server is interested in ganking or thinks it’s OK, particularly the crap where someone is ganking people 40 or 50 levels below them - that’s just being a bully.
A quick look through a list of quests available for World of Warcraft doesn’t show any that revolved around PVP (that I’ve seen). So I’d have to say that PVP is definitely not the whole point of the game.
Correct. For the first few yeas PvPers actually had to do lots of non-PvP related things (like quests and instances) in order to level up, leading to immense amount of crying that Blizzard didn’t love PvP, or take them seriously, or whatever. Now, they can level up in battlegrounds and arenas by bashing other players over the head or stabbing them in the back to their heart’s content.
You still get PvPer’s whining on PvP servers, but you know, some of us like to do both PvP and all the other stuff.
Do you understand that the one and only difference between a pvp and a pve server in WoW is that other people can kill you? That is it, absolutely EVERYTHING you can do on a pvp server you can do on a pve server, except for that ONE thing. That’s why i mean by the whole point of the game, although i guess i should have said server. If you are choosing to roll on a server where people can kill you and then complaining about it then it is YOU who has the mental issues. If getting killed for any reason whatsoever by another player bothers you even one tiny little bit YOU SHOULD NOT BE THERE.
Except… I’m not complaining about it. I AM, however, pointing out that someone who goes around killing toons 50 levels lower than they are is nothing more than a bully, as such a lower level toon has absolutely no chance against someone that much higher and all you’re doing is screwing with someone else’s game. NO ONE signs on to get killed over and over or be corpse-camped.
And yeah, I understand the difference. I’ve only been playing WoW for 5 years, on all four types of servers.
Mentally ill? Probably not. Bullies, griefers, near-illiterates, and all-around jerks? As a rule, yes. They make (often incoherent) speeches about how fighting players is more challenging, but in reality as far as I can tell most will choose to attack people who can’t or won’t fight back over anyone who is an actual challenge. And when they are in an area that doesn’t allow PvP, they’ll go out of their way to make themselves unpleasant in other ways, whether it’s in game, in chat or even on game forums. They also tend to have an unpleasant mix of gloating sadism and self righteousness.
You don’t get it. We’re not throwing around “mental ill” as an insult. We are talking about a real concept. People who get a thrill out of causing harm to others show a remarkable lack of empathy. People who think everything is okay if you don’t get in trouble for it lack a sense of morality that usually comes as people mature.
In no way is expecting people to act like civilized human being a mental disorder. But the above seems rather strange.
When someone takes your money in monopoly is that causing harm to you? is that lack of empathy? is it immature to think it’s ok to bankrupt my family and taking their properties? You don’t get it, it’s game, absolutely nothing bad happened to you when you got killed.
PVP is not the question here, what I referred to as Hardcore PVP (or griefing) is in question. Continually killing NPC’s (you get no xp for, and this often disrupts questlines) and continually killing lower level players (you get no xp for that either, nor can they fight back) is in question.
And really, the argument that spawn ganking or quest disruptin isn’t griefing is silly. Blizzard certainly sees it as a problem.
I’d go further than calling them bullies Broomstick, only because they’re supposedly adults.
No, they don’t. Did you read what that Blizzard representative was saying before linking to it?
There’s killing a low-level player and camping them for an hour – and then there’s killing a player, camping them until they log-out, finding them when they log-in, and continuing to camp them for days until they’ve become so frustrated that they give up trying to enjoy the game. Blizzard doesn’t have a problem with the first. They have a problem with the second.
Of all the things that happen on the internet that might qualify as products of a mental illness, griefing is nowhere close to making the list.
Yes, I generally actually read things prior to linking them. They have a problem with PVP griefing, which is what this thread is about.
They also said:
In any case, it’s a definite split between those who think griefing PVPers are just people having fun, and those who think there might be a mental issue involoved.
I don’t play WoW so I’m not sure about the following: Does the ganker get anything, in game terms, as a reward for ganking?
If not, then whatever we want to say about what’s allowed by the rules, it does seem clear that gankers are being jerks, and it is always wrong to be a jerk.
If I get ganked, though, is there no way for me to simply log out and then log back in and go somewhere completely different in the game and do something else for a while? Or am I forced to come right back to the spot I got killed at?
@Frylock - according to the WOWpedia you don’t get anything (points, money, prestige) for killing players too many levels below yours. And I’ve don’t believe you gain anything by killing Quest or Market related Non-Player Characters either.
Most MMO’s I’ve played, you log in right where you logged out, there is no way to log in at a different location. Not saying this is true for WOW, I don’t play it.
Actually, it’s entirely possible for another player to NOT be an adult - there’s no lower age limit for WoW players, although parental supervision is of course recommended.
Good point Broomstick. We can only go by what age they claim to be I suppose.
Let me answer this definitively for World of Warcraft
The only time you get anything for killing another player is when that player relatively close in level to you - I think it’s currently 5 levels, so if you’re 85 (the max right now) you don’t get anything for killing someone 79 or lower.
You get nothing for killing an non-player character.
Now, you DO get points for killing someone above your level… but someone, say level 20, can’t even hit someone 85 - they’re too well armored/protected/warded/etc. In some circumstances (certain types of protective spells that cause damage to an attacker) a level 20 attempting to attack a level 85 will be killed by the player’s protective spells, even if the higher level is away from the keyboard and their character just sitting there.
In theory, a bunch of level 70’s could band together and take on a level 85 and if there’s enough of them they might take down the higher player, but a bunch of level 20’s couldn’t - because they can’t even hit the higher player.
And that’s why I say someone 85 killing level 20’s is nothing more than a bully - there is no way that is fair. There have been cases where Blizzard suspended a player for harassing lower level characters. They aren’t common, but there is a point where they’ll stop you.
When you die your ghost shows up at a graveyard, looking at a spirit. You have a choice - run back to your body and jump back in, or ask the spirit to resurrect you, but if you choose the latter you get 25% damage to everything you’re carrying and 10 minutes of “resurrection sickness” which leaves you extremely vulnerable, with very reduce armor, health, and attack capability.
So, if a ganker is standing over your body you can opt for resurrection, then cast your “go-home” spell (hearthstone), which, if it is keyed to a capital city, sanctuary, or starting area is safe from ganking. On the other hand, if it’s not you might have a problem. Also, if the ganker is hanging out in the graveyard itself you are screwed because no matter which choice you opt for the ganker will kill you again before you can go anywhere - and graveyard camping (outside of battlegrounds) is something very, very frowned upon because you can essentially deny someone the ability to play the game at all. THAT would be a clear case of harassment/bullying.
Even on a PvP server - contrary to what some may tell you - it’s NOT a 24/7 gankfest. It is entirely within the rules to cooperate with the enemy to bring down a powerful enemy, accomplish certain quests, or just gather resources without killing each other. Killing the other faction is not a mandate. Sometimes I’ll go out questing and when encountering someone from the other faction will try to get them to cooperate with me - which is a challenge because you have extremely limited communication with the other side available, and there is no reason for them NOT to try to kill you. People who are all about the killing don’t comprehend that cooperation can be just as challenging as killing someone.
I do a lot of pvp, but I do it in WoW battlegrounds–special zones set up for pvp between relatively evenly matched teams of willing participants. Am I “hardcore”? I dunno…both my max level toons are wearing decent pvp gear…not top of the line, or even close to it, but not too shabby. My fingers are just not limber enough, and my skills not sharp enough, to succeed at the highest levels of pvp–but a significant part of my playing time is spent in pvp.
Most of the time, I don’t even do world pvp…I will defend one of the Alliance cities from a Horde raid, and I do a certain amount of “anti-ganking”–ie, when I learn of Hordies harassing newbies in one of our zones, I’ll go down and do what I can to run them off…and maybe I’ll punish them a bit if I get the chance. I have done some spawn camping, but only against those that were being dicks to our guys too low to fight back effectively. I don’t go to Horde zones and do that kind of shit to them.
On my server, Alliance is often outclassed by Hordies at pvp. But that just makes our wins all the sweeter when we get them.