explain PvP to me

Maybe its just because I don’t see any fun in a game you can’t lose that I don’t understand this. I’m not a PvPer really. I tried it on City of Heroes/Villains, but didn’t enjoy it so I stayed out of the PvP zones. Since most of my characters are “squishy” it wasn’t a good deal for me anyway.

I never inititated a duel on World of Warcraft, and most of the people that asked me duel were always ten levels or so higher. I’d decline and they’d beg and beg and beg. I never understood why they wanted a duel so badly when I can’t possibly win anyway. I didn’t mind being ganked really if I was in the opposite faction’s zones…after all the game is set up that way.

But I recently started playing Age of Conan and while in the Underhalls I was killed several times by vharacters that were several levels higher. I really had no chance in beating them in a fight. Some of them would even wait until after I finished a battle and then gank me when I had a sliver of health left. I was more bewildered than upset. I knew it was a PvP server so I don’t think they technically did something wrong. I just don’t see the appeal of attacking someone that really can’t fight back in game. You don’t get any loot or anything. Its not like it takes any skill to do it. Well except the 2 guys that jumped my character…they were both 4 or 5 levels under me, so if they had won I’d have given them kudos. (They didn’t win, I slaughtered 'em, but only after they attacked me first.)

I can see the fun in a fair battle…but I don’t understand the mentality of the other. I don’t think I ever will. Do people really find that fun? :confused:

I suspect that it’s driven by the same urge that makes bullies enjoy their bullying: it’s a chance to let off some aggression without any risk to the self. At least obnoxious PVPing doesn’t hurt anybody.

Daniel

True. as I said I was more bewildered by it than anything. I had equal or near level people attack me and even when I lost I thought it was fun. The only time I really got a bit peeved is when a guy that was four levels higher than I was attacked me directly after a fight with “The Black Ones”. I had a sliver of health left (all of my NPC opponents were higher level than I was so it was a close fight and I was happy that I won) but this cheese-eatin’ jerk shot me with arrows from a distance then did a little dance move before running off into theentrance I was trying to get into. I almost thought about writing his name down so I could hunt him down later, but I quickly forgot about that. After all it was a PvP zone, so he didn’t do anything wrong…its just cowardly. If he had even said “Lets fight” and let me rest up for a minute I’d have been okay with it. Its not like I had much of a chance beating him anyway.

But I guess it does add flavor to Conan’s world. Always watch your back. :slight_smile:

I cant think of the article I recently read but it was a post by some guy talking about how gamers tend to play by what they think are the rules instead of what the rules really are. they get pissed off if someone uses a “cheap” move or does anything they consider unfair.
I am not accusing you of anything at all here, just pointing out that many people play on pvp servers simply so they can kill other players, and in that crowd there will always be the dinks who only ever want a fight with some one they are sure to win against.

its a part of the game, a fun way to deal with it is (if you can) to simply out lvl them then hunt them down repeatedly. these guys are usually irrationally upset when their own behavior is used against them.

Because killing another player is a hell of a lot more fun than fighting the moronic AI.

Seconded. I used to play WoW, and there isn’t really much to the leveling part of that game without the PvP encounters. And I liked that a lot of the time it would be blatently unfair (in the other guys favor, I agree there’s not a lot of fun jumping someone more then a level or two below you), it you beat the attacking character, or even get away alive, its something to be proud of. And it keeps you on your toes and prevents grinding from being too much of a bore.

Killing other players you can’t lose against? How is that more fun than just killing low level NPCs? IMO it takes a sad, sad, person to find fun in that. Or a child. Even a grownup child. (and AoC is rated “Mature” so really there shouldn’t be any children playing) Just before I logged out of the game tonight someone said in OOC chat that there was a higher level character attacking lower level “don’t have a chance” character at a spawn point. I’m not bitching about being killed on a PvP server, I’m just trying to understand why someone would think that is fun. I’ve had many opportunities to gank low level characters myself, but whats the point? Its not a challenge. Its like kicking a puppy. The puppy can’t really defend itself so beating on it is just…well, asinine.

Ok, maybe the puppy thing is over the top, but its picking a fight you know you can’t lose. I really don’t see the appeal in it.

.

Like I said I thought about doing that, but in the end I figured its not worth the effort. I play to have fun, and on a PvP server if I have to suffer “dinks” well, I knew what I was getting into. I really just want to understand their motivation. Its only a game, but theres no sense of accomplishment if you can’t fail. I imagine that some of the folks that ganked me were upset that i didn’t cry about it on broadcast. I just went about my business, avoiding them if I had to.

the sad thing is I’ve run into characters lower level than me that actively avoided my character. I could tell they were just afraid I’d attack them. To me, and I understand its only my feelings on it, if they don’t have a snowballs chance in beating me, its not worth killing them. I guess I don’t like kicking puppies.

When I played WoW, my experience was that griefers were pretty much children who thought it was hilarious to annoy others and swear unimaginatively. Think of it as the modern equivalent of prank calling.

I get what you mean…in WoW if you beat a guy that is one or two levels over you, thats a good feeling. But in AoC, a character you outlevel by 4 or 5 levels has little chance of beating you. A lvel 20 character can kill a level 15 in a few seconds, with only a few blows. A level fifteen would have to spend 2 minutes hacking away at a level 20 and thats if the level 20 just stood there and didn’t defend himself.

I guess it depends on the game system. In City of Heroes/Villains I thought people attacking my Mastermind before I could summon my henchmen was a good strategy. A lot of Mastermind players thought it was unfair, but it made sense. Why let me call my killer robots that can possibly defeat you if you can stop me before I do it? In WoW if I’m an alliance character in the middle of horde territory I totally understand ganking me. Even if you outlevel me. The game is set up so those 2 sides are at war.

In AoC? Its a barbaric world, but you don’t get anything for beating a character you can’t lose against. At least in the other games mentioned you get something…whether its honor or a high rating for PvP. In AoC you don’t get a daggoned thing. I gotta agree with the Left Hand of Dorkness. Its just a form of bullying I guess. Maybe thats why I have such a distaste for it. Even if I attacked an equal level player and they asked me to stop i probably would. if I’m going to fight another a player I want a challenge, not an easy victory.

I used to hunt Campers in First Person shooters. That was always the most fun thing to do. Find out precisely where they are and railgun them before they realized where you are.

If I were to play a game like that, I’d setup a guild that was designed around bully hunting. Get a whole bunch of peeps together for the express purpose of hunting someone like that down. Now THAT would be fun.

As it is now the only MMORPG that really has caught my fancy is Eve Online.

I don’t understand this concept of ‘challenge’ though. When I watched people play WoW, the controls were so horrible that there didn’t seem to be much challenge involved. If it were like an FPS, I guarantee that there are people I could kill in combat even if they were higher level and required me wearing them down for a while.

NPCs don’t try to run away.

WoW is too much of a grind for me to keep playing continuosly. I still have my account, and I enjoy it at times, but a coworker that got me into it just recently had a baby, so he may not be on much longer. I agree with you about the controls.

But I like your suggestion. :). I’m still ni the obligatory free month of AoC. If I decide to keep playing I might form a guild that does that…hunt griefers in PvP. Though technically they aren’t griefing. I just think its chickenshit. Never played Eve online though…is it a good game?

They do in **City of Heroes/Villains ** at times. Its a pain too, to chase them. They always run into other groups of NPCs in order to get them to attack you. The SOP for it is to *not chase * them. With the exception of a few missions, they always come back.

Eve Online looks good. I haven’t played it yet, but it sounds really awesome, deep space corporate intrigue, imperial battles, a quarter million people on a single server.

Sure, but Jolly Roger isn’t really asking about PvPing in general (thread title aside), but rather enquiring about the motivation of gankers… and the people who want easy duelling “victories” by thumping characters that have no chance of fighting back.

I don’t get it either. I’m the first to admit to not being much skilled as a PvPer (though I really enjoy Alterac Valley with my enhance shammy), and most of my WoW characters are on a PvE server, so I’ve seen less of this than folks on PvP servers, but we still get the so-called duellists that want to challenge someone 30 levels lower.

As an aside, not sure what you mean about the controls mswas… WoW’s controls seem pretty normal (once I reconfigure them for left-handed play) and similar to RtCW, MoH, and other FPS games. (Not an argument, just not sure what you mean).

P vs. P will work in a game where it has been properly integrated, and it isn’t a matter of something which has been added on as an afterthought, but is an integral part of gameplay. Teamwork fighting over important issues/MacGuffins/locations, not meaningless 1 vs. 1 duels where the outcome is not in doubt, initiated by goofballs who have nothing better to do with their time. When the Warhammer MMO game goes online I might give it a shot because it appears that they did their homework.

Some people are predators who enjoy killing prey, not seeking honor fights. Back when SW:G was still in development, the hot debate was whether or not to have the game be open PvP as EVE and Ultima Online are. (I almost said ‘as EVE is and Ultima was,’ but the game still lives, amazingly enough.) The problem there is that one of SW:G’s selling points was that you could be a non-combat person and still succeed at the game. You wouldn’t believe how many people demanded the right to be able to kill lone, unarmed farmers.

Funny thing I’ve seen in debates over PvP in MMOs. There’s an eerie similarity between them and debates over libertarianism. Should the state/game enforce cooperation or should the players be left to organize militias and defend their property themselves?

EVE Online really does it right. The game is ostensibly open PvP, but the inner part of the galaxy is heavily patrolled by NPCs, with the security gradually declining as you move toward the outer reaches. There are no social rules enforced by the game otherwise. Pirates are a fact of life, but it’s possible to never encounter them if you don’t want to. It’s a better system than Ultima, which had NPC guards in town, but step an inch outside city limits, which you had to in order to accomplish anything, and they wouldn’t lift a finger.

I was going to explain that Skull is actually Brent’s guardian angel and the only one who can hear Scratch talk but I appear to have misunderstood the thread title.

Another aspect is that there are a lot of clans and other groups out there where your rank in the clan is determined by how many kills you have on the clan kill board. Killing you when you are several levels below them isn’t a challenge, but it gets them another kill on the killboard and so raises their rank in the clan by that much more.

So it isn’t about challenge, just e-peen.

The only MMORPG where I got into PvP was in Lord of the Rings: Online. They have a special PvP set-up there where you choose to join the War on the side of the Free People (Refered to as “Freeps” by players) or as one of Sauron’s minions (“Creeps”). The PvP was all held in a separate zone with keeps to defend/capture, quests, etc. I played a Creep and there was a good sense of camaraderie there – since the Creeps are restricted to the one PvP zone, it was viewed by us as “our zone” and we worked well to keep out the Freep intruders. Sometimes we won, sometimes we lost.

Eventually though, there was a lot of cheap play especially on the parts of the Freeps. It became common that players would use 3rd party voice programs like TeamSpeak to communicate with friends playing Creeps and find out exactly what our plans were. Some people would use game bugs to pull the spawnpoint guards away so then they could camp the Creep spawnpoint and kill people before they had even finished loading. Some of it was game balance issues or just the effects of a growing population of players but a lot of it was outright cheating. And, yeah, I consider 3rd party programs to spy and exploiting ingame bugs as “Cheating”. And, no, this wasn’t all Freeps but enough of them to make the game distinctly not fun.

Ultimately it just wasn’t worth it any longer and I stopped playing. As a matter of fact, I was playing the PvP subgame almost exclusively before that and so I just quit LoTRO altogether. From what I hear, they’ve done a lot of changes to the PvP game but I’ve already seen that PvP brings out the worst in players. I suppose it brings out the best in some as well but the dinks and cheaters sure do seem to outnumber the brave and clever.