I’d ride an HPV (either one of these new vehicles, or just my bike) if there were a few problems I could get around. The first one is the distance. Because I live out in the middle of nowhere, and I’m back to graduate school for a doctorate while working full time, I drive at least 200 miles every day, from home to work to class. Hopefully that will change soon, with graduation coming up, but even then, I will have a 25 mile commute (one way). Even before I went back to school, there were two issues that kept me from riding as much as I liked. One was something called chip-sealing a road. Unless I switch over to a fat tire bike, I can’t ride on roads for a long time after they’ve been chip-sealed. (2-3 months before I can take my road bike out on the road). Basically, my complaint is that the roads (in SE New Mexico, at least) would need a lot of work to support serious cyclists. The second issue is security (one that I don’t see addressed as much). I just don’t feel as safe riding home at night (I often work until 10:00 pm) on a bike where I can’t lock myself in. Right now my bike sits in my office, where I can ride during lunch hours.
Very true my friend. As I noted earlier, I’m sure a lot more folks would consider cycling if any, or all of the following conditions were met…
(1) If it was less dangerous - as in, safer or more bike lanes and/or bike paths. This would include stuff like dedicated bikeways which have special “shortcuts” that cars can’t use. That would be so WAY cool. Especially if those short cuts amounted to equal, or less transport time.
(2) If it was easier, in terms of personal hygiene etc - ie; more showering facilities etc in the work place.
(3) If it wasn’t so stigmatised. Regular road users don’t like sharing roads with cyclists (rightly so I might add) and if you dare to swim against the tide, you feel somewhat stigmatised and “stared” at - if you know what I mean. It all kinda adds up to not want to do it.
However, to this day, in terms of pure inarguable specs, one thing CAN’T be denied - the bicycle remains THE most efficient form of transport ever invented. Possibly only rivalled by rollerblades (in the context of net resources used). As I have joked many a time over the years, with a good racing bike, you can get over 2,000 miles per gallon of milk! (smile)
The issue, as it seems to me, is that we in the West seem to have accepted the “culture of the car” as being the ONLY culture that works - and I don’t accept this to be true.
As it stands, yeah, it’s true that most urban centres in the Wetern World have built their civil engineering projects around the car, but that doesn’t mean things CAN’T change in the future. One of my favourite visions would be a city which has “car free borders around a 5 mile radius” from the city centre, and then, at all the major car parks on those borders, you would find free pushbikes provided gratis by the city council. There are so many benefits to such a notion. For a start, you wouldn’t have hoons racing around the streets with their epicly loud boom box sound systems!
I know it’s a fanciful idea, but it’s one which appeals to me immensely. Taxi’s and trucks and buses would be excepted from the filter obviously.
Another idea which appeals to me is a city which is strewn with parks all over the place with dedicated bikeways through those parks. And those bikeways would be real two-way roads too, just for bikes alone. This would allow for the speedsters amongst us to choof along without pedestrians walking 4 abreast taking up a whole lane - coz if you car drivers aren’t aware of it, pedestrians piss us cyclists off as much as we cyclists piss car drivers off, believe it or not! It’s the speed differential which is the bug bear I find. And I’m sure pedestrians on their morning walk don’t like some racer whooshing past at 30mph just a few inches away from their shoulder.
Anyways, that’s enough of the fantasy. Getting back to an earlier post - folks, if you aren’t aware of this, cycling is probably THE best way of all to keep your weight down as you get older. Put it this way, have you ever seen a fat Tour de France rider?
So many folks say that they’d like to find a way to stay healthy and lean, and yet they ALSO also say they like to transport themselves around in comfort and nice clothes etc. Then, when they get to the office, they sit at a desk all day long. Well, here’s the thing - the more sedentary you are, as you get older, the more it shows. Those love handles just get more and more stubborn, don’t they?
It seems to me that very few of us can eat our cake and have it too, on this score. If you’re the sort of person who desires comfort (all the time), it WILL come back to haunt you in terms of personal health. All things being equal, providing a means for cycling to become a greater percentage of daily transport for a given society’s population is an amazing way to decrease public health costs. Without doubt. Less body fat, every time, means better health, if that body fat has been reduced through regular exercise that is.
**
If I tried driving that thing 10 miles in Dallas when it was 95-105 degrees I’d arrive at my location drenched in sweat. Not exactly something I’d want to do if I was going to work, meeting friends, or just going to pick up some groceries. As for the winter time you’re going to have to factor in more then the cold. Let’s not forget the snow or ice that will be on the ground.
I dont’ think this product will ever have more then a small niche when it comes to the transportation market.
Marc
T-keela:
“I used to ride a 10 speed over 40 miles a day…EVERYDAY! 20 to work and 20 home. damn that’s tough! rough ass country too, lots of hills. I got pretty good though, I could do it in 40 minutes easy (one way).”
Here are the results of stage 9 (individual time trial) of the 2002 Tour du France:
- Santiago Botero (Col), Kelme, at, 52 km in 1hr 02min 18sec
(average: 50.080 kph, at - Lance Armstrong (USA), U.S. Postal, at 00:11.
The winning time ~ 33 mph. You missed your calling.
As for ice, they’re mostly trikes, not bikes, making them no more dangerous than cars - probably less, since so much less kinetic energy is involved if traction is lost. Anyways, it’s perfectly possible to bicycle year round in northern cities. I did it for several years in Winnipeg. With a fairing it’d be downright comfy. The weather factor is mostly an issue in places too hot to survive without a/c.
Granted, there are downsides, and modern cities aren’t set up well for this sort of thing. And probably they never will have more than a niche. That doesn’t change the fact that if cities were set up slightly differently, with the right encouragement these things could have a substantial impact on traffic densities in many places.
And I still want one.
It seems as if some are inclined to doubt me regarding my bicycling. All I can say to that is: I can not prove this to you. I can tell you this. “ON MY WORD ONLY”
I started bicycling at a very early age and rode a bicycle practically everyday for 30 years. I’m not talking leisurely rides.
I’ve played sports all of my life and worked out with weights almost continuously. Played baseball, football, ran track (mile) etc. all through school, jr. & highschool and in college fell in love with racquetball. Playing at least 3hrs/day 4days/week in between warm up and cool down in the weightroom.
When I was really into bicycling, I would often take the long way, sometimes when I felt good!! the mountain and I would clash. It’s a little over 8 miles from bottom to top. Not too much incline but steady. I nearly stroked out one summer, it was over 100d./f. that day and I remember the spots I saw at the top. (the peak IS fairly steep)
Yeah, I have much respect for pro cyclists. I never thought about bicycling as a profession (at the time).
I could give some times, but I already feel like some would call me a liar, so…I’ll let it go.
I cont’d. this into adulthood until fairly recently. I no longer workout with the Obsess/Comp. mentality as before. I still miss it sometimes…you know the challenge to yourself. hoo-rah
Anyway, I’m sorry for the hijack. Y’all get back to your stuff.
Peace…
Good for you I say. I never doubted you. As we say down here in Queensland, “son, round these parts we assume you’re a decent bloke until you prove yourself otherwise…”
t-keela:
Remember that this whole “how fast can a person ride” started because someone doubted the pratcticality of these vehicles in terms of speed. You made it sound like anyone should be able to easily ride at 30 mph. If you got up to that fitness level, that’s great. But the average joe on a bike is going to be lucky to do 15 mph. I’ve done quite a bit of cycling myself, and would feel pretty accomplished at anything > 20.
Keep pedaling-- it’s good for you, and it’s fun!
I never meant to imply anything like everyone could do it. I did claim it became easy, in the same breath as “damn that’s tough”.
I didn’t just decide to one day, ride my bike in to town and walla…40 minutes later I was there.
My point was that, I have ridden a bicycle before as my primary means of transportation. I was in excellent shape and still would not consider this a practical vehicle for myself, much less “the average Joe”. A recreation vehicle, maybe?
I lived in Dallas for awhile and for a few months…a bike was it! I could beat traffic in many cases. I love to ride, I just don’t ride like I used to…gotta work too damned much now. Like I said at first, I can’t afford the time it would take to pedal somewhere. Time is money and pedaling doesn’t pay. Not when I get nearly 40mpg and can drive 70. Gas is about a $1.50 gal.
Do the math, I get $20/hr on avg. for work. I drive at least an hour or more everyday to work and back. See, I don’t have to go any further than that, right?
Now, I don’t know how far Joe has to drive everyday. But, I doubt most could take a pedal car there and back. Hell, if you can’t get but 10 mph. on average…you might as well walk.
Man don’t let me bring y’all down. It sounds great for recreation and such. Do these things come with a heater and/or AC? Will they pass safety standards and have child safety seats and belts and/or airbags etc…guess I better do a little research before I start sounding ignorant.
g-nite
10mph average is a respectable and useful speed in my opinion, assuming that’s a true average (i.e. 1 hour after stepping out the door, you are 10 miles away from home.) Where I live, a 10-mile trip with car or public transport can take up to an hour.
No heater or AC, just a removable top and body heat. It’s easy to pass the current safety standards which only require good brakes, reflectors and lights. Velomobiles don’t have airbags but they’re still safer than conventional bicycles. With 3 wheels you are less likely to fall down, and even if you do the enclosed body will save your skin. Many are equipped with rollbars and seatbelts. There was one incident where Rob English rolled his racing streamliner at 70mph, skidded along the road and crashed into a parked car. The rider only suffered minor bruises. Here is the video of the crash if you can handle a 2-megabyte movie file. Another racing streamliner, the Coslinger Special, crashed into a 3" metal pole at 30mph. The rider did suffer “minor injuries” but no broken bones as far as I know. Those racers are crazy anyway - the Coslinger Special uses a video camera instead of a window, and crashed when the camera failed.
Velomobiles aren’t designed to carry children. If you really had to, you could tow a trailer behind it. The Tanjor trailer should work well.
Anyway, a lot of people here said that it takes more than a cheap product to make it practical - we’ve got to have the infrastructure. I guess I’ll have to agree with that. If I had to wear a suit at work it’d be difficult to manage.
So, scr4 I checked out all the links and prices and data on these links. They are pretty cool for the most part. The aerorider is bad-ass, if I was still in my 20’s and lived in a city. I might be tempted if the price was right. NO-WAY in hell would I pay the nearly $8000 bucks they’re talking about.
I think after checking it out, listening to others here and recalling my past enthusiasm for cycling, there probably is a market here for this type of transportation. It would not be great, but there would possibly be plenty of folks across the country that would be interested.
As far as infrastructure, that would come in time as they gained popularity. The key would be marketing and promotion. They would be popular with 18-25 yr. olds for their sleekness and style, speed and $$$
For the more mature adult, I would target those looking for a leisurely way to exercise in practically all weather. Make a two seater with the motor option…mom and pop can go cruise the neighborhood. Quiet communities would probably take to them like wildfire. Make 'em inexpensive, show their practical aspect coupled with their health benefits. Maybe include some available options, ie: rechargable battery w/ lights, turn signals, radio, and a fan. These things would have very little weight, and would enhance it’s attractiveness.
So, I stand corrected regarding my original response. There is a market I think. It just isn’t a practical market. It would have to be targeted to specific groups in my opinion. We 30-50 year old working stiffs (for the most part) don’t have time for it. Plus, ALL my money goes to raising a family.
good luck
Ancedotal only… Well, unless I go dig up links, and it might be a bit hard, as most of this predates the Web, if not the Net.
I used to be a recreational touring cyclist, back in the 80s and mid 90s. At the time, Recumbent Cycles were the hottest newest coolest concept in the world, especially those with aerodynamic shells. It was not uncommon for Bicycling magazine, or other magazines of the sort, to have people write road tests of said bicycles. In at least one, the cyclist got a speeding ticket on a highway. Aerodynamic shells make a huge difference when cycling, it’s something like 95 percent wind resistance, and five percent friction. Sustained speeds of 65 miles per hour, in recumbent one-man vehicles are not impossible.
However, they are expensive, hard to turn, bulky, and have not yet caught the public eye.
As far as using them as personal transport: No cargo space, limited passenger capabilities, extremely limited use in adverse weather…
You forgot that it also needs people to use it. While I’m sure there are some willing to use it I don’t see it taking to much business away from automakers. I’m just not convinced that a whole lot of people want to ride 10-15 miles to work and then 10-15 miles from work in the Dallas heat or during a Buffalo winter.
Marc
Are you talking about racing streamliners? Matt Weaver’s site has lots of photos, especially this page. The current world record stands at 80.55 mph. I don’t think anyone got a speeding ticket for real, but ceremonial speeding tickets are sometimes “awarded” at races.
There is a distinction between racing streamliners and velomobies. Velomobiles sacrifice some speed for practicality so they tend to be more manageable in traffic. They’re still big and expensive, unfortunately.
Well, certainly, that’s the style of bike, but no, people who wrote for Cycle mags would get one, go out and roadtest it, and I clearly remember one person either talking their way out or actually getting a ticket. I seem to recall a picture of it in the issue… but it was fifteen years ago. In short: Yes, racing streamliner. No: Not in a race, being misused on public roads for a feature article in a magazine.
Okay, it was eight years ago. Was it only 1995? It had to have been earlier, I went to England in 90, and I had all but stopped serious cycling by 94, as life pressured.
http://www.ihpva.org/pipermail/trikes/2000q1/001100.html
Here’s someone with photographic evidence.
http://www.speed101.com/now/fastest_0127_4.htm
Yeah, they were ‘arranged’, but hey.
Well, I’d be happy to ride 10 miles every day each way. 15 if the roads are straight and flat. Driving makes me tired, cranky and stiff, but a 10-mile bike ride leaves me refreshed and happy even in the middle of winter. I can’t be the only one who feels that way?? It’s the rainy days I can’t stand, but a fully enclosed velomobile would solve that problem.
You’re forgetting the complete loss of traction, the effects of wind on a light vehicle, and, of course, the light fun of snow.
Not to mention the complete lack of ability to transport more than one bag of groceries.
Another option of course is to make use of hybrid bus carriers and bike stations.
The theory here is as follows… most folks are quite happy to ride a mile or two to a local bus station. Special buses can be designed which are kind of like reversable versions of those amphibious crafts used in the D-Day invasion.
The bus comes into the station, and you all walk on with you bikes, rack them up and then take a seat on the benches.
But unlike pedestrians, the advantage of having “bike buses” is that you don’t have to have anywhere near as many bus stops - which has always been the most infuriating aspect of bus travel for me. As a result, your major “Bike Buses” can go for 8 or 10 miles at a stretch from major station to station and then the cyclists can arrange their shorter hops themselves.
I personally think that’s a great theory. It means cyclists don’t have to ride anywhere near as far - reducing perspiration issues etc. Also, the buses can be covered to protect passengers from the elements. And it allows for a perfect hybrid - large distances can still be covered but the net result is lower parking costs and less congested city streets. And within reason, most folks are happy to ride their bike during lunch hour to nearby malls and stuff if they need to do business.
The only trick is to take care of the grocery issues. Better home delivery service I guess is the answer.