Chimps, Bonobos, Gorillas, and Orangutans have traditionally been placed in a separate taxonomic family from humans – the reason being that humans have an upright walking stance and none of the other Great Apes do.
When did this change come about? Was it due to the fact that humans have more in common genetically with chimps and gorillas than orangutans do with chimps and gorillas? DO we have more genes in common with chimps and gorillas than oragutans do?
“Great” apes? Hardly, mediocre at best as far as I’m concerned. However I would think that the reason that the “great apes” were placed into a different taxonomic family had less to do with rational genetic distinctions and more to do with “we’re not monkeys”.
If it is true that we have more in common genetically with chimps than do orangutans, then we probably do qualify as great apes.
(And sorry tracer, but we can’t really say that. At least not any of the apes that exist nowadays.)
What I meant was, if we and chimps are now considered members of the family Hominidae, it would most likely mean that the most recent common ancestor of ourselves and chimps would also be a member of the family Hominidae – and, thus, a great ape. Wouldn’t it?
Had I not seen his other posts on related subjects, I would have guessed that to be true, Tracer. But with his other creationist posts, I figured he was probably serious, and just threw in the smiley as more of a “shit-eating grin” type of thing – you know, as if he had asked the best question in the world and was smiling 'cus he was proud of it. Maybe I’m wrong and you’re right, but I’ll wait to see what he has to say about it.
No, I don’t hate you. I just wonder why you’re on a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance when you seem dedicated to propagating it.
So, now that you have your answer to the “what’s up with that” part of your question, do you have any comments, other than that it was “entertaining” (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context)?
You can “think” anything you like. But around here, you’ll be asked to prove it. So prove that my posts show I “hate anyone that carries a religious belief.”
And I never said you are ignorant because you have a different opinion. You’re spreading ignorance by making false statements about creationism and evolution. Opinion doesn’t come into it. Reality does.
I hate to have to hijack this short thread back to the OP, but:
As recently as 6 months ago, that Lycos Taxonomy webpage I linked to in the OP said that Chimps, Bonobos, Gorillas, and Orangutans were NOT in the family Hominidae. Other posters here in Great Debates even confirmed this at the time. Now, the Lycos page says they are. Furthermore, there is at least one other webpage supporting this reclassification.
I really am curious: When did this change come about? Is it now “mainstream canon” amongst taxonomists, or is it just a new hypothetical “alternative” family tree for the great apes? How much resistance to this new family tree is there within the zoological community? And am I blowing smoke out my ass when I say that orangutans have fewer genes in common with gorillas and chimps than humans do?
tracer- sorry I don’t have a citation handy, but I definitely recall reading in several different sources over the last few years that humans, chimps, bonobos and gorillas are all closer to each other genetically than any of them are to orangs. Not only that, but humans, chimps and bonobos are closer genetically to each other than any of them are to gorillas. In fact the extreme genetic closeness between regular chimps, bonobos (pygmy chimps) and humans was the reason Jared Diamond titled his book on human evolution “The Third Chimpanzee”.
First a question: what are the lesser apes, if any? I mean, the original list of great apes reads like my whole list of apes, minus the gibbons. Are gibbons the only lesser apes?
Second, I’ll just point out that my Random House College Dictionary defines ape as “a tailless monkey, or a monkey with a very short tail”. So I can’t see what humans could be evolved from, other than apes. Unless their tails dropped off at the same instant they became humans. Not likely. I’d say Australopithecus africanus is definitely an ape, even etymologically (Australopithecus = Southern ape).
I just had to get my two bits in, that there is no reason to construe “ape” as “non-extinct ape” and no reason to construe “extinct ape” as a contradiction.
According to This Link to a webpage from the University of Manitoba, humans – and only humans – are classified as being in the family Hominidae, while chimps, bonobos, gorillas, and even orangutans are classified as being in the family Pongidae.
I knew I didn’t imagine seeing a different taxonomy out there!
Note that this earlier (I assume) taxonomy classifies gibbons as belonging to the family Hylobatidae, and ALL great apes and humans as belonging to the superfamily Hominoidia. The other 2 webpages in my OP, and This 3rd one which I just found, also put gibbons in the family Hylobatidae but eliminate the superfamily tier entirely, placing them all together with old-world monkeys into the infraorder Catarrhini.
Having an open mind means you put out a welcome mat and answer the door politely. It does not mean leaving the door open and with a sign saying nobody’s home
