At work the other day people got into a discussion about illegal aliens and their effects on the economy. One of the people involved then made the comment that since when caught, they are not brought before a criminal court, they are not technically criminals. Is their validity to her argument?
Not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but in my mind anyone who breaks the law is a criminal. Just not charged and convicted.
I think the word technical is misused. A better question would be, could or do a large portion of people of average intelligence who have a reasonable lay definition of ‘criminal’ still hold that they’re not criminals. For instance, GaryM just told us that he believes speeders, jay walkers and people who make illegal right turns are criminals whether they’re caught or not. But I suspect most people would agree that’s a ridiculous definition of criminal and refuse to use it. It wouldn’t matter to me if some lawyer came in and told me tha, yes, absolutely when you plead your speeding ticket before your district justice you are technically a criminal. I still wouldn`t consider a speeder a criminal no matter what the “technical” definition is.
So if you really want to know about the technical definition, I hope someone answers you. But I don’t think it will have any bearing on the woman’s argument.
I’ve heard some commentators say that illegal aliens are breaking the law every day. Is the crime entering the country without documentation (a single offense) or is the crime being in the country without documentation (a daily offense) or both?
It’s a crime to give someone a job who is not legal .
It depends on how they became Illegals;
evading an inspection at the border = misdemeanor
overstaying a visa = possibly not illegal in the jailtime sense - but you can still get deported
These are all, in Ohio at least, minor misdemeanors for which no jail could be imposed even if you’re convicted. I would not call someone who commits such a petty offense a “criminal.” But GaryM’s point is still valid, IMHO. Would you not have called, say, Al Capone a criminal before the Feds got him on tax evasion charges? He was entitled to the presumption of innocence by the court system, of course, just like everybody else, but the average person looking at Capone’s livelihood could reasonably consider - and call - him a criminal.
There are legal means to enter and work in this country, and illegal means. Most violations of immigration law can result in Federal prison terms of up to five years, although usually deportation is the result. Titles 8 and 18, U.S. Code. I fully understand the dire economic circumstances that impel people to try to sneak into the U.S., but I would have to call someone who knowingly violated so serious a law a criminal.
They dont get tried before a court, because IMO, everybody knows about as well as you possibly can that they actually ARE guilty, and a trial is a waste of time.
So, the fact that they don’t go to court is a side issue IMO and doesnt prove a thing.
Now, if you are of the mindset that being here illegally is more along the lines of speeding tickets or other “minor crimes” that you dont really consider criminal, thats a whole nother issue.
But, again, the not going to court thing is irrelevant.
It’s simply a matter of semantics.
Being an illegal immigrant may not be a violation of criminal law, so one would not be arrested, tried, and sentenced to prison. Rather, it is a violation of immigration law, so one would be subject to the jurisdicition of one of the federal authorities (ICS, BCP, USBP), sent before an immigration judge, and deported.
If your definition of “criminal” is violated a criminal law and subject to prison sentence, then no, illegal immigrants aren’t de facto criminals. If your definition is one who violated a law and is subject to penalty, then yes they are.
I’ve been told that the way I dress is criminal. I am a US citizen.
But is it a crime to accept that job and work, if you are not a legal resident? I think that is at the crux of the OP.
As Rumor_Watkins noted, immigration can be a civil or criminal matter depending on the exact question. Even if we limit ourselves to people to cross the border without authorization, whether the offense is criminal or not depends on some other factors (like previous entry).
What confuses people is that the result of the government finding out you’ve entered illegally looks similar to what happens when a crime occurs: a person is detained, and then “punished” by being deported. But in fact removal is not a criminal punishment. Not even a misdemeanor, like jaywalking. If it were, it would be subject to all the procedures we require for criminal punishment.
I think the word criminal is misused, at least in a discussion about legal matters.
Being an illegal is probably more akin to being a fugitive than being a criminal. You’re someone who has already committed a crime, who is out on the lamb.
On the lam. No sheep involved.
Probably not. But almost all jobs now require you to show documentation of your citizenship. If you showed forged papers, or someone else’s papers, I think that would be a crime.
If I walk into a store and take something without paying for it am I a criminal?
If I murder someone and don’t get caught am I a criminal?
From the light end of crime to the heavy end, answer this for youself and you’ll get the answer you seek.
The basic definition of crime is “an act punishable by law.” A criminal is one who commits said crime
No it isn’t. Speeding is, in many jurisdictions at least, not a crime, but a violation. Yet it is punishable by law.
In addition, what about the human traffikers/smugglers? There are people who are so desperate for jobs that they will pay someone to smuggle them over to this country.
Not every breach of the law is a crime. If I fail to honour my contract, for example, or run you over with my car, or lots of other things, I’m breaking the law and you can sue me. But I’m usually not committing a crime.
Broadly speaking, a crime is a breach of the law for which the law provides for public prosecution and, on conviction, sentencing to a penal sanction.
In this sense, quite minor misdemeanors are “crimes”. “Crime” is synonymous with “offence”. But in some places offences are further categorised into major and minor, with the lesser offences being called misdemeanours or violations, and the greater ones felonies or crimes. So there is a narrower sense of the word “crime” in which it refers only to major offences.
Nevertheless, in the primary sense of the word, minor misdemeanours are crimes, prosecuted in the criminal courts and resulting in a criminal sanction.
A “criminal”, generally, is someone who commits crimes, regardless of whether he is detected, charged or convicted. If convicted, he becomes a “convict”.
As I understand it, illegal aliens are not inherently criminals. You cannot be charged with or tried for being an illegal alien, and there is no penal sanction. You can be removed or deported, but that is an administrative procedure. In the course of becoming an illegal alien you may, however, have committed a crime; this depends on the circumstances in which you became an illegal alien. Your crime in that case will be, e.g., evading border inspection, not being an illegal alien. And, if your illegal alien status is eventually resolved (either by legalisation or deportation) you will still have committed the crime concerned, and so can still be called a “criminal” (and can still be prosecuted, convicted and sentenced).
But, no, there’s nothing inherently criminal about being an illegal alien.