Are Protestants in Northern Ireland in particular actually of Irish ancestry or are they mostly descended from Scots, Yorkshiremen and Geordies? Was there ever a significant number of Irish Gaelic people who converted to Protestantism or is the difference between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland clear in the genome as well?
Do people in Northern Ireland who are Protestant consider themselves Irish, English, Scottish or neither?
Are you asking if the Protestants in Northern Ireland are primarily of native Irish ancestry or primarily descended from immigrants to N. Ireland from other parts of the UK? Either way, if they are citizens of Northern Ireland they are “Irish”.
Northern Irish would primarily consider themselves Ulstermen — which term includes no ideological significance — and British. In the same way as a Texan is still American.
Most of the prottie side ancestries have been there before most white Americans’ ancestries were in America. Many do originate from the Scots Plantations, but even before that the races comprising the British Isles were thoroughly mixed together, and ‘Scots’ once meant Irish even. Most of Ireland whether in the Six Counties or without has had successive waves of ‘English’ blood so much that prolly no-one could be found of pure Gaelic blood.
Politically, however outsiders think people should think according to the outsiders’ bias, there are protestant [ Irish ] Nationalists and catholic Unionists. As the once monolithic Church slowly sinks in Ireland the religious differences will matter less and less: the prots wholly justified fear of Rome Rule and their own hideous oppression of the catholics in the 20th century, and the Nationalist ethnic cleansing of protestants after Ireland’s Independence will all recede into the past, to be replaced by entirely new hatreds.
The question in my mind, and perhaps what the OP meant to ask, is this: Do Northern Irish Protestants, as a whole/for the most part, share a common ancestry/origin/ethnicity with Northern Irish Catholics, or do they have significantly different roots? Furthermore, how would this aspect compare with residents of the Republic of Ireland?
ETA: This seems largely answered by Claverhouse, but feel free to elaborate as you deem appropriate.
I don’t interpret it that way or even see it as an important issue. All of the Northern Irish people that I know (my uber boss is one) self-identify as Irish, speak with an Irish accent and have obviously Irish mannerisms. They say that they are just as Irish as any other group and I don’t see any facts at hand to suggest otherwise. I would say yes.
I never had a problem with the people from the Republic of Ireland or the Northern Irish. I am very sorry they have such a problem with each other. Talk about splitting a knat’s hair, that is a perfect example of it. They both inhabit a rather small island country that is unfortunately divided in some ways but needlessly so from an outside perspective. If groups of people that are both nominally Christian and share many aspects of common culture cannot get along there, it doesn’t bode well for groups of people that have true differences.
You go ask Ian Paisley if he’s Irish. I’ll wait here.
Wikipedia. TLDR: Protestants overwhelmingly say “British,” a good amount say “Northern Irish,” and very, very few say “Irish.” Looks like multiple answers are allowed.
If that were the case, this issue would be easy to solve. It’s not. Religion is very low on list list of grievances, and the community tags are commonly used in place of “Nationalist” and “Unionist.”
The answer, as usual, is “it depends.” My husband is from Belfast and attended a Protestant school, although his background is mixed (mother Catholic, father Protestant). He definitely identifies as Irish. But I’ve met plenty of people in NI who would say they are British before they are Irish.
On the tour bus, I often ask people where they’re from, and the Northern Irish tend to say “Ireland” or maybe “the northern part of Ireland” (usually only when prompted for more), but almost never do they say “Northern Ireland” straight off. I generally don’t follow up and ask for their religion, though.
Yeah, this. I don’t think anyone here who isn’t from Northern Ireland is qualified to answer. My work colleague is Protestant, from Belfast, but a rugby player, which in itself may influence the fact that he calls himself both ‘a British citizen’ (nationality) and ‘Irish’ (how he thinks of his ethnicity). He doesn’t see any conflict in this. Northern Ireland and the Republic play as a combined ‘national’ Irish team in rugby - an example to the rest of their compatriots and the world about how to get on.
The Baron Bannside has said that he is Irish, amongst other things. Other people have called him other things, of course. Ian Paisley Sr: "“I was born in the island of Ireland. I have Irish traits in me - we don’t all have the traits of what came from Scotland. There is the Celtic factor… and I am an Irishman because you cannot be an Ulsterman without being an Irishman.”
Without going on a rant, I think there’s a bit of a danger of expecting all the people of one nationality to confirm to certain requirements in order to qualify as “real”. Yes, an Irish can be Protestant and identify with Britain and be Irish. Why not? One can be Hindu and British, or Buddhist and American etc. One doesn’t need to have a certain ethnicity or religion to qualify as “real”.
Quite a large number of Northern Irish Protestants will have some sort of native Irish ancestry, as will many Catholics have some Protestant ancestry. Blood ancestry is not particularly important, it is the cultural and religous identity that is more important.
And wasn’t it the Church itself that hounded the poor man to death over poor frail Kitty, the darlin’ love ?
Actually — rather uncertain as to how I feel, not being nationalist for any fucking place — my G-Grandfather, or GG-Grandfather was given the middle name Parnell, whilst his brother had the middle name Grattan.
Yet their father came over from Dublin in the 19th century and settled happily enough here. Back then ordinary Irishmen were counted as British, and considered themselves such even if they hated the British establishment. Or, at least, West British.
Given the back-and-forth migrations between Scotland (you do know where “Scots” came from don’t you?) and Ireland, they really are the same people in terms of genetics and such. The fact that some “recently” came over from Scotland doesn’t matter a bit.
Claverhouse covers the political identity side.
But I want to also point out the awfulness of saying someone isn’t an “X” because of religion. Remember You Know Who back in the 1930s who pulled this.