Are many cops just grown-up bullies?

I had an experience a few days ago that reinforced my belief that many policemen are bullies. This story is a bit long, but lemme explain:

Last Saturday night, I wanted to go visit my family on Long Island. Since my car is off the road, this usually entails taking the Long Island Rail Road. My mom and sister were out, so I didn’t have any way of getting from the train station to my family’s house (13.5 miles away from the train station). I decided to bring a bicycle on the train.

I didn’t think this was a big deal. I’ve seen many people bring bikes on the train. I positioned the bike so that it wasn’t blocking anyone’s way, and I was on an off-peak train (after 9PM on a Saturday night).

After the train left the station, I was approached by a female train conductor, who informed me that I was supposed to have a $5 permit in order to take a bike on the train. I said OK, just tack it on to the price of my ticket, and I offered her a $20. The conductor informed me that she couldn’t sell me a permit and that I had to apply for one at Penn Station (the station I had just left). Worse yet, she didn’t want to “let this one slide” and she insisted that I get off at the next stop, take a train back to Penn, and apply for the permit. I explained that I thought this was unreasonable - trains to Port Jefferson (my destination) are usually 2 hours apart, and I didn’t want to be pedaling a bicycle down a main road after midnight. Not to mention that the next stop was Jamaica (a NY neighborhood that no one wants to be in after 9PM with a $650 bike). And besides, no one had ever told me that taking a bicycle on an LIRR train requires a permit. Instead of reasoning further with me, the conductor called the police.

At Jamaica, I behaved like a good little boy and got off the train so I could turn around and get my bike permit. There, I encountered 2 cops and the Jamaica stationmaster. The situation was pretty much sorted out in about 10 minutes, but here’s what the cop said to me before letting me go:

“When the conductor radioed this in, she said you busted balls about the permit. Now, I don’t know you, but I do know her. You’re about 3 times her size, and if there were a situation, I would have taken her word for it. And if you had busted my balls, you would have gone to jail.”

Please keep in mind that while I am a big guy (6’4", approx 300 lbs.), I was being completely cooperative and non-threatening. Anyway, this is how I translate the officer’s words:

“I am your judge, jury and executioner. If you’re doing something I don’t like, I can take you to jail. The train conductor is a cute little blonde girl who is a personal friend of mine. You’re just a random big white dude who I don’t know. I just wanted to reaffirm that I’m a bad-ass before I send you on your way.”

I did make it back to my mom’s house on LI at about 2 AM, but the whole experience really ticked me off. Where does a cop get off threatening me with jail time just because I had a disagreement with one of his personal friends?

I was going to post this right after it happened, but blew it off, until I saw the following posted by SqrlCub on WeirdDave’s thread “So you’re gay. Who gives a rat’s ass?”:

Maybe I’m just upset about my experience last Saturday night, but I’m really beginning to wonder… Why does a police uniform seemingly turn people into bullies?

I know I’m going to get flamed for this, but I have the same impression. That is, I have the impression that most (not all) cops like to have power and carry guns around on their hips. (Note: I have no problem with guns, but I do have a problem with the sense of power they give to some people.) I shouldn’t talk about cops that have pulled me over because that’s obviously a negative situation; but cops I’ve met socially just don’t seem to be geniuses. (There was a case back east last year where an applicant to the police department was rejected because he scored too high on an intelligence test.)

I’m sure most, perhaps almost all, cops are very ernest and think they are providing a service to the public. And they areproviding a service (catching the bad guy after he’s you’ve been killed, catching a thief after you’ve been robbed, etc.). But they have a definite “them vs. us” attitude. Anyone see Survivor? I’m sure sue thinks she is a very honest, upright, good person. But she’s no braniac and though in her mind she’s in the right, I think most people would agree the’s not. I have the same impression about cops. There’s a thread about corruption in Mexico. When you look at things like the Rampart Scandal, when you hear about cops partying in alleys in downtown L.A. (when they bust up parties in private residences), when youy see how they extend “professional courtesy” to other cops when the other cops “bend” the rules, it reminds me of comments in the other thread. Joke: New Orleans has the highest murder rate per capita in the United States… And that’s jus the cops!

Now, I know that all cops aren’t bad and that the “bad apples” may be tarnishing the reputation of the entire force; but the police departments (at least in metro areas) don’t seem to be concerned enough about cleaning up their image. Sure there is a lot of press about the Rampart thing; but think of all the other stuff that goes on that doesn’t get reported.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

Cops are either former bullies or people that were formerly bullied.

I’ll say this once and only once so that I don’t start a flame war.

You guys are stereotyping really bad here.
I have personally known several cops (my husband’s best friend for one, my cousin for another) and met several more in their official capacity (I speed). I have yet to be bullied, insulted, or have my rights infringed upon. Every cop I have met has been polite, calm, and professional. I know that there are bad cops out there that are bullying power junkies but I have yet to meet one.

Just keep in mind that they aren’t all the enemy and that all cops aren’t out to get you. Sheesh.

chrisbar

Very true, but you have to be ready for the ones that are. No ‘sheesh’. You obviously haven’t been on the receiving end of some ‘tough cop’ BS.

You should all move to Canada.

The RCMP have a way of weeding out the shitheels.

I’ve never had a problem with the RCMP…city cops on the other hand, are a bunch of dough-nut eating fat assed fucksticks.

Present company excluded of course…Blue Pony and others.

But…

It’s not stereotyping if it’s based on actual experience.

every occupation has it’s bad apples.

Unfortunately, for police departments, when THEY have a bad apple, there’s a real potential for huge abuses. If you’ve got a bad ticket taker at the movie theater, well, gosh, you might get overcharged/undercharged etc.

but a bad cop, and you may get wrongfully imprisoned, etc.

So, while there may not be more “bad” cops, the potential for badness with a bad cop is pretty significant.

that having been said, I also think it would almost NEVER be in your best interest to expect to conduct all of your interactions with cops as potential bad cops.

On the situation in the OP, it has been my experience (as a very short female in an authority position) that very tall, large males can be intimidating, sometimes unintentionally. body language can be a powerful message when encased in a laaaaaarge body. Not saying you did something specifically wrong, just a heads up on why she may have percieved you as having an attitude.

My best friend, who I’ve known for 11 years and was the best man at my wedding, is a cop. He works in a small NE Ohio called Twinsburg. I can assure you he was never a bully, nor was he bullied. He’s just a normal guy. I’ve had bad experiences with cops, too, but I think they’re largely an urban phenomenon, and the exception rather than the rule. He also works training incoming officers; I’d rather have him doing it than one of the “bad” cops.

Johnny: I recall the case you’re talking about. The police department’s defense was that they didn’t want the applicant, who was otherwise qualified, to become bored with the beat cop job he was applying for. IIRC, the plaintiff lose the suit; the court ruled that the department was within their rights.

Here in the UK the police do not routinely carry guns yet they still seem to have more than their fair share of assholes.

This is why I was careful to say “many cops” and not “all cops.” I know several that are upstanding, intelligent people that are interested in upholding the law. However, many are just plain bullies.

A cop once ripped up my friend’s driver’s license right in front of him (for a minor speeding infraction). Instead of simply paying a ticket, my friend had to go back to the DMV and get a replacement license, which is a tremendous hassle in New York. Let me ask you this… What right did that cop have to be judge, jury and executioner?

And don’t even get me started on the Abner Louima thing. It makes me sick just thinking about it.

There this one University Cop at Plattsburgh, where I go to school. There’s been graffiti in our dorm building about him, and the guy has done some wierd things to defend his ego. He once walked into a student’s room in the middle of the night, while his door was ajar, and went through his drawers and flipped through his address book looking for a handwriting sample to compare to the graffiti. The student’s roommate woke up and was understandably surprised. The student filed a complaint, which basically means a little note went in this guy’s file, and in three years, when his contract comes up for renewal, if the guy has a whole bunch of these notes, he might not get renewed. The same guy has screamed at other members of that particular wing of the building, saying things like “Fuck [Cop’s name]? I’ll fuck you! I’ll make your lives miserable!” (Someone had written “Fuck [Cop’s name]” on the wall on that floor.
Does anyone else see a problem with this system? IMHO, if a cop does something like I mentioned above, seraching through someone’s room with no warrant or provocation, he should lose the job. Bye bye. You can do something else for a living, but you won’t ever be a cop again. If you ask me, following the rules is more important for a cop than for any other profession, except maybe doctor. Hell, I only get “three strikes,” at my pizza delivery job.

This problem may have partly arisen from the fact that the University police were only upgraded to real police status last year. Before that, they were “public safety,” glorified rent-a-cops. Now they carry guns. Another officer once unhooked the snap on his gun holster and started playing with the handle of his gun when he and two others were “investigating” a friend’s dorm room. This is blatant harassment.

Chris, I would also suggest since the cops are in your personal family and you know several that someone would have seen you around and would let you off a little easier. Also, cops tend not to be so nasty to women. It is some nasty macho thing.

I have had bad experiences with cops about 90% of the time. I have an uncle who used to be a cop, prison guard, and now currently a parole officer. When he was a street cop he was a total asshole, he went to a prison guard and mellowed some (he wouldn’t take any BS but still had some of the bully attitude to him), and now that he is a parole officer he is really fair (he still doesn’t take any BS but he doesn’t really bully anymore either). I am not surprised that most of the cops that I have had the unfortunate experience of meeting have been assholes. Their job is extremely stressful and could result in them getting killed by the right psycho. If I had a job where I had that type of stress everyday I know it would get to me too.

HUGS!
Sqrl

Oh, this is me being the anti-police-brutality activist…

In my city,

  • I’ve been chased down the street by baton-wielding officers into a row of baton-wielding officers, for participating in a peaceful protest.
  • A woman participating in a small anti-funding-cuts protest at Concordia had her kneecap smashed by an officer who was breaking up the protest for no apparent reason.
  • Police beat a homeless guy to death for annoying the patrons at a tony restaurant.
  • Police pepper spray has been scientifically linked to the deaths of asthmatics, for example two people who died after the police pepper-sprayed them, and they continue to use it anyway.
  • I’ve heard a lesbian police officer say that her colleagues bust a much greater proportion of the gay people they find having sex in parks than the straight people they find doing the same thing.
  • assorted other unpleasantness.

Are all cops like that? No.

Are altogether too many cops like that? Yes.

This is just my personal experience with cops, so take it FWIW.

I grew up (until age 23) in Pittsburgh. When I lived there, I hated cops. And this was based on the fact that my friends and I were harassed several times when we weren’t doing anything wrong, Rude ass motherfuckers who are working at parks or directing traffic, and once I was pulled over for going through a yellow light. (He claims it was red, which I know it wasn’t, but who is a judge gonna believe? :rolleyes: ) He gets out, comes up to my window, leans over and SCREAMS: “YOU BETTER WATCH HOW YOU DRIVE THIS LITTLE SHITBOX, CAUSE I CAN MAKE YOUR LIFE A MISERABLE HELL. NOW GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!” No ticket. I guess the colostomy bag just needed to vent or something. Whatever. Now, granted, that the entire Pgh. police force is much more than the dozen or so cops that I had run-ins with, but when the score is 12 asshole cops and 0 nice ones in all my experience, it tends to skew you viewpoint.
Moved to Atlanta about 4 years ago. After I was here for a few months, I got pulled over on the interstate. Going 82 in a 70 zone. Busted, yes I know. I got all tense and defensive and ready for a bad situation. Cop strolls up, called me sir, was respectful, and polite. Even gave me a “Yeah, I know it easy to loose track of your speed along this stretch, I’ve done it myself…You just need to be more mindful.” He wound up giving me a ticket, but I was so shocked at the way I had just been treated by a police officer that I didn’t mind getting the ticket! This probably sounds stupid to a lot of you who have never had run-ins with fucknut cops, but it getting the ticket actually made my night to know that there are some nice ones out there. I’ve only had one other experience with a police officer since I’ve been here, and it was good as well.

It has been my observation that the cops with the biggest badass attitudes are the younger, rookie cops. It seems to me like a phase they go through. “I’m a cop now, treat me with respect. I AM the man”. But it wears off the longer the cops are cops. The only ones I’ve had trouble with are the younger ones.

Also , after watching Cops the TV show, and seeing how many dumbasses they have to put up with. I can see how they can get a little bitter with people in general. I don’t excuse it, but I can see where it comes from.

Xisor is pretty much on track about the younger ones. I’m a “civilian”, as they describe me, who works on their promotional and entry level tests, so I work with cops from all ranks. It’s a unique sitation that allows me to see a cross section of the entire department, from applicant right up to the chief. One thing I’ve noticed is that police recruit applicants are pretty ordinary people. They’re not bullies or those who have been bullied at all. Before they’re cops, they’re more or less indistinguishable from the rest of the population. The only exception are the handful who think they have to act military to get the job. These are the ones who preface everything they say to me with “Sir” and won’t even sit down until I tell them to (despite the fact that I’m not the one making the hiring decision).

After they’ve been through training, they change. A diplomatic way to say it is that they’re confident. They’ve just been through training that taught them that they can stay in control and handle themselves in touchy situations, and so they naturally think they can kick your ass. They probably really can. This is no different than the feeling of confidence one must have after completing military basic training.

Then, as an officer, a lot of the people they talk to are suspects. The majority of people they talk to on the job are deserving of suspicion. This is what leads to the “us vs. them” attitude. Some cops will let this attitude carry over into their interactions with everybody, on the job or not. These are the ones that come off like jerks. Others maintain a more reasonable outlook.

As they go up in the ranks, the attitude mellows considerably (actually, I sometimes wonder if it’s the ones who never lost their good attitude that get promoted, just because of their good attitude). A lot of the lieutenants and most of the captains are once again indistinguishable from the rest of the population. It’s interesting. You could be sitting next to high ranking one in a bar and never suspect that you’re talking to a cop. Many of the younger ones, however, would make you wonder.

In the end, the vast majority of them are not bad people. Some of the younger ones will seem a little arrogant (OK, very arrogant), but most of them are pretty reasonable people.

Well, you can read the title of my reply on this matter…

In my 29 years, I’ve seen cops mistreat people, abuse their power, and do things I know are against the constitution.

I’ve seen them harass people for being or LOOKING homeless.

When I was gay bashed in 1997, they did not look thrilled to help me. In fact, they were surprised that I was gay. Not that they didn’t do their job, but I also dropped the information that I designed the website for their department and I knew the Chief, the Mayor, and the Budget Director.
Let me tell you, that got respect.

When the police came to get my step-father off my mother, they got her out of there, but not without criticizing her for staying with him in the first place.

The only time I like what the cops do around here is when they bust Fraternity Row. Otherwise… they’ve even printed in the paper what their ticket quota is for drivers and they ticket people as much as they can in Corvallis, Oregon.

Not to mention that offensive policy of taking your license and running your information even if they stop you for a busted taillight. I swear, they think that they’ll catch another Capone by doing that. Overzealous pigs.

I’m not sure. I’ve met a few nice ones in Jackson (200k People). I’ve been in Madison (25K) just to my north, and they have quite a few assholes. Madison is simply a bunch of rednecks that moved uptown. Ridgeland (25K) is nicer, the chief is strict on them. Florence (12k) and Pearl (20k) are tough on kids, but then this is redneck kids. Clinton (25k+) are pretty fair. (yeah, all this is around Jackson)

quote but I forget the author:

A poacher is a keeper turned inside out
A keeper is a poacher turned out side in.

I agree with srwilkins. Age has a lot to do with it as with everything. Let’s face it, young people have more hormones and fewer brains. Young men are prone to being more aggresive. Watch aggressive drivers and most of them are young men. Give them some authority and they become real a–holes. After some years they get older and their stupidity decreases as it does in the general population. Note also that criminality also decreases with age.

American society is very violent and cops are immersed in that. A cop in a small town who knows most of the people there will be very different from a big city cop who is dealing with suspects all the time.

Me? I try to stay away from them if I can. Just in case.